New learner rules- will they reduce crashes?

[Ixion]

I guess everyone has cottoned on now to the fact that the rules for 6L and 6R licences are shortly going to change. Quiet a lot.

The salient points, for anyone who's been in a cave for the last couple of days

• 250cc limit is scrapped, and learner s will be able to ride any bike up to 660cc PROVIDED it's on the approved list.
• 70kph limit scrapped
• Over 25 restricted period increased to 12 months

And a few other bits

Now, by and large , this is all good from the learners point of view. And I see quite a few already sizing up R6s and the like

BUT-- the idea was actually to make things safer, to reduce the rate of motorcyclist crashes, fatalities and injuries.

So, wodda y' reckon? Will it work? Will the new rules mean fewer noobie crashes ?

Will they work at all? One big problem I see, at present the rule is pretty simple. 6L, 6R, under 250cc.

Now, it's under 660cc. Yes, the actual MODEL is supposed to be on an approved list, which won't include CBR600s and ZXR600s and the like. But d' y' really reckon y' typical boi-racer wanna-get-a-moddaboike type is going to figure that out? All he'll see (and all his mates will tell him) is that he's allowed a 600 bike. And that R6 is 600 , right?

So unless the cops are a LOT tougher on policing the restrictions (very unlikely) , I reckon it will come down to a free for all less than 660cc. Which in practice, means pretty much any sprots bike.

Admittedly, it may not make so much difference, cos those types are probably riding R6s on their 6L already anyway (for a little while, anyway)

So , wodda y' reckon.

Going to make it better, fewer crashes

No difference

Or is this going to be the biggest thing ever for Gene-O-Kleen ("Evolution you can see")

[Headbanger]

My gut tells me no.

Actually it tells me to feed it, but after that it says no.

[breakaway]

No. Putting noobies on more powerful bikes will just mean more crashes and injuries.

IMHO, 600ccs are is WAY too much for a learner to handle. The IL4s anyway.

[James Deuce]

You forgot the "No Change" option. I think the intentions behind the reg changes are not only good but reasonably well informed, and the larger selection of motorcycles available to learners will make motorcycles a valid transport option as opposed to a hobby. However the training dished out to every driver/rider in this country will still be inadequate.

The road toll and the accident rate isn't going anywhere until you have to actually work and learn to get your license.

[Headbanger]

You forgot the "No Change" option. I think the intentions behind the reg changes are not only good but reasonably well informed, and the larger selection of motorcycles available to learners will make motorcycles a valid transport option as opposed to a hobby, the training dished out to every driver/rider in this country will still be inadequate.

The road toll and the accident rate isn't going anywhere until you have to actually work and learn to get your license.

My thoughts exactly, except when I wrote them down they were gibberish, so I made a joke about my gut instead.

Anyway, I concur.

[Ixion]

You forgot the "No Change" option. I think the intentions behind the reg changes are not only good but reasonably well informed, and the larger selection of motorcycles available to learners will make motorcycles a valid transport option as opposed to a hobby, the training dished out to every driver/rider in this country will still be inadequate.

The road toll and the accident rate isn't going anywhere until you have to actually work and learn to get your license.

No, i didn't. Option 2. Whatever they ride, it'll stay the same.

Which is my pick. The 250cc restriction is sufficiently avoided (legally or otherwise) that I doubt it's actually going to make much odds. But , if it does have any effect, I think it'll be detrimental in terms of statistics. But , as you note, good in terms of motorcycling overall.

I think there are probably quite a few people who think about getting a bike to ride to work and so on, try a 250 and decide "No, that's not going to work". If they can get a GS500 or XT600 or such, they'll be happy. probably stick with it permanently.

So at least we may get away from the "Woot I got my full now I dump the 250 and get a 1000cc".

Perhaps the saddest thing about the whole initiative is that it shows how little the sheeple really understand about what is needed to reduce the motorcycle road toll. Fiddling with the learner restrictions isn't going to be what does that.

[DingoZ]

Can't say that I am all that thrilled with the new changes. Hopefully, and all going according to plan I will be on my full before these changes come into effect.

I for one would not relish the thought of being over 25 (and having several, several years of road experience under my belt without an accident), and having a limitation placed on me for 2 years, regardless of whether it is meant to increase my experience or reduce the risk of an injury or accident.....

Competency based assesments yes, good idea..

Compulsory rider training, yes another good idea..

With more tougher riding exams in order to meet the criteria. Get rid of the simple ride around the block and turn here and turn there. Do a u turn and hey presto you got your license....

Scrapping of the 70km per hour limit, yes, 50/50 as it is a double edged sword.... Some say dangerous and some don't agree. If you can perform an emergency braking manouver from 100km's per hour safely, knock yourself out. (More rider training on this on the BHS courses)

Me personally I think hell yes scrap the 70km limitation...

After reading most of the threads from "Newbies" about near misses, and lost the front end going around roundabouts and the multiple threads about Binning it and so forth, and all of these are on the 250cc or below rated bikes at the moment. Shows IMO that the accidents that are happening now may very well increase. A 250cc bike is to a certain degree more forgiving than say a 600cc bike. The acceleration is much less direct (sharp), the braking is much less direct, the power to weight ratio is most certainly less.


There is nothing wrong with the current system. Except for the sub standard criteria for meeting the riding tests.

6L's on them for 12 months if under 25.... 6l's on them for 6 months if over 25 with competency based assesment.

6R's on them for 6 months without rider training courses, if over 25. Or 3 months if over 25 and completion of rider training and advanced rider training courses.
6R's on them for 12 months if under 25, and completion of advanced rider training course before 6F.

You want the bigger bike. Prove through rider competency courses and assessments that you can handle it. Or stay on a 250cc through the process and garner the experience that way...


(Hope the above made sense).....

[James Deuce]

IMHO, 600ccs are is WAY too much for a learner to handle. Then again maybe they won't put GSXR600s on the approved list.

It isn't about cc rating it's about power to weight ratios. An Aprilia Pegaso trail would make an excellent learner bike IMO. An unrestricted Aprilia SVX550 would not and wouldn't make it past the power to weight ratio criteria in unrestricted form.

There's a lot of really interesting stuff on the NSW LAMS list of motorcycles, none of them particularly threatening, but the diversity of options is huge. In terms of new 250s at the moment it's a thrashed to death 15-20 year old sportsbike, a Chinese copy of what used to be a good learner bike with a manufacturer approved copy of their brand on it, Hyosung's improving offerings, Kawasaki's re-modeled GPX250, or a bunch of comparatively expensive Dual Purpose bikes.

[James Deuce]

No, i didn't. Option 2. Whatever they ride, it'll stay the same.

But the "n00bs" are under represented in the accident stakes. They aren't the problem, it's the out of practice BABs that are doing the crashing and have been for the last 15 years. Usually by themselves.

[Motu]

They will finally be able to have the bike their ego demands - and their ego says they know how to handle it.I can't see the figures coming down personally.

[Usarka]

Better for motorcycling on the whole but i fear it wont make a fly's twat of a difference to safety. i hope i'm wrong.

its not what you ride its how you ride.

[Ixion]

But the "n00bs" are under represented in the accident stakes. They aren't the problem, it's the out of practice BABs that are doing the crashing and have been for the last 15 years. Usually by themselves.

Possibly so. But the new proposals specifically target 'noobs' (though Harry did mention in passing the 'had a licence for 20 years , but haven't ridden for 19 , reckon I'll get a GSXR1000' problem - without any solution) . No change at all for BABs. So at the moment we are only considering the novice rider.

[Donor]

Not a lick of difference will new rules make.

With the possible exception of the 70km/h one being scrapped.

At the very least, I will now no longer want to throttle n00bs and plonkers who love to get all emo about how 70km/h is so dangerous that they feel compelled to take their L plates off because it makes car drivers want to kill them on sight, as well as summon aliens to probe their bottoms with cold steel implements...

In fact there's a whole new side question!

Will the scrapping of the 70km/h rule increase the number of n00bs using L plates due to lack of cop out and excuses?

Inquiring minds want to know...

[pritch]

That list of approved bikes was a real nostalgia trip: AJS, BSA B50SS, even a Panther 650. It would likely be beyond the attention span of many modern yoof to even start most of those.

Then again it isn't like you can duck down to the local dealer and buy a Panther 650. I've been riding bikes off and on since 1959 and I've even never seen one in the flesh...

[Ixion]

I saw a couple . even got to start one. Surprisingly easy by big single standards. VERY heavy flywheel , so long as you did the routine properly it just rolled over TDC easy as

EDIT: I have NEVER seen a Rudge-Whitworth (different bike to the Rudge) . Gawd knows what old crusty wrote the list. I'd really like to see his gargre though.