New learner rules- will they reduce crashes?

[vifferman]

THEY MAKE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN SUB-50cc's and MOTORCYCLES, whilst they are two completely different categories of road user!

That's a worrying factoid.
I believe a lot of scooterists treat a scooter as a glorified bicycle, and have a correspondingly lax attitude to the business of getting about on one. They don't wear proper safety gear (I've seen scooterists wearing shorts, tank-top and no footwear at all!), and are far too casual about riding them. They're probably the ones boosting the injury statistics.

That reminds me: on the weekend, I saw a guy on a crusier [sic] on Glenfield Road, wearing a lovely pair of those plastic slip-on sandal things, in dark pink / red. Obviously not riding the bike for the image...

[Blue Babe]

That's a worrying factoid.
I believe a lot of scooterists treat a scooter as a glorified bicycle, and have a correspondingly lax attitude to the business of getting about on one. They don't wear proper safety gear (I've seen scooterists wearing shorts, tank-top and no footwear at all!), and are far too casual about riding them. They're probably the ones boosting the injury statistics.

It's not just the scooterist's, there's are an aweful lot of bikers riding around town, just wearing T-shirt, shorts & jandals. Even more with out their gloves. Sometimes see the rider with helmet & jacket on, but No gloves, wearing shorts & if you are lucky trainers. Why is it law to wear a helmet, but nothing is said about the rest of the body??

[cooneyr]

I think the new rules will make things worse. I started on a Suzi DR250 djebel which I sold about Nov 05 and am now on a DR650. As I understand it there about 10hp difference between the bikes (low 30's and low 40's respectively) but the 650 gets off its arse much much better (relative terms here). The point is that the DR650 has a lot more torque, hence accelerates faster. This means that when riding in windies etc you have to be careful about giving it a handful less you end up at the next corner way way to soon (if you are unprepared)

The point is the 250 felt tame compared to the 650 in the same way that I'd expect a Suzuki GSX250 does to a Aprilla RS250. Its all about power curves. I'm guessing that current lams list but with a limit of 400cc would be a much better idea. This way you get rid of the 250 smokers with their peaky power curves and get rid of the 650's with their torque. This obviously leaves a few reasonably fast machines but they will hopefully be nice and benign i.e. learner friendly.

I do think that loosing the 70kph restriction is a good idea though. Speed differential is just asking for trouble and how many people take any notice of it anyway?

Cheers R

[Coyote]

Yup. It's good to have the attitude that there's a lot of stuff still to learn, and a lot of practice required.

I know I have plenty to learn, for instance I can't do a wheelie on my VFR above 20cm high and other hooligan tricks. Though I must be at intermediate level rather than a noob by now, surely.


Hopefully the XR650R doesn't become learner legal cause I'm going to be annoyed I couldn't of had one during my learner times whereas everyone else can. The rest of the bikes I'm not so fussed.

[mark247]

WTF it says on the NZ herald site ( http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10500855 ) that

* Restricting the use of powerful motorcycles by novice riders. Learner and restricted motorcycle licence holders would only be able to ride motorcycles which did not exceed a power-to-weight ratio of 150 kilowatts a tonne and were not too physically large for the rider.

So this 660cc rule seems stupid.

My VFR400 is 60hp, and weighs 165kg dry, so ill use 180kg.

1000kg / 180 kg = 5.55.
60hp X 5.55 = 333hp per tonne
333hp = 248kw.

That's WAYYY over the 150 kiwowatts a tonne.

[mark247]

a GN250 is 124kw per tonne, thats getting close to the limit. am i doing this wrong???

[mstriumph]

..........Perhaps the saddest thing about the whole initiative is that it shows how little the sheeple really understand about what is needed to reduce the motorcycle road toll. Fiddling with the learner restrictions isn't going to be what does that.

did they actually liaise with any motorcycle groups before coming up with this?

[Timati]

Doesn't make sense to me to allow learners to ride a 660cc bike but disallow them from riding a 2 stroke 250CC like the Suzuki RGV250 unless I am completely mistaken about it???

BTW when do the proposed regulations come into play seeing that I know a couple of people wanting to sit for their learners?

[sunhuntin]

Better for motorcycling on the whole but i fear it wont make a fly's twat of a difference to safety. i hope i'm wrong.

its not what you ride its how you ride.

agreed. when it comes those who are learning or getting back in the saddle after however long, its the ones who are already safety concious that these new rules will make a difference too. they will be the ones smart enough not to buy an r6 just cos its under 660cc.
personally, i felt safer on the 500 virago than i do on the 250, and i feel safer on the 250 virago than i did on either gn250s. the 500 had superior overtaking speed against all the other bikes, but, in saying that, the 500 did teach me skills for overtaking on a smaller bike.
only reason i sold the 500 was cos i couldnt legally ride it, and didnt have time to ride two bikes. but, i can borrow it any time i like, which is a bonus.

coyote... i almost always slow down well before the paint, and line up so im going around it... i dont give a rats whos up my exhaust honking. when it comes between them being held up, or me ending up on the road with a hot exhaust on my leg, they can damn well wait. same for any situation where its raining, like taking corners etc. ive never once had a drop in the rain, though i have had the back step out once or twice, enough to scare but nothing else.

edit: reguarding scooterists, would someone please get it through their thick skulls that wearing a helmet with the chinstraps flapping is pointless? i told the boys over the road from my work id knock their heads together if i saw that again, but i dont have time to tell every dimwit that comes in.

[mattian]

Does anybody know when exactly these laws will come into effect? is there a fixed date?

[Ixion]

No exact date has been fixed. There is a process that has to be followed before the changes can be gazetted. Which does involve (nominal) public consultation.

Word is "later this year".

It usually takes about 4 to 6 months . But can vary a good deal .

[Ripperjon]

I may be a sceptical bastard, (in fact, i am sceptical but technically not a bastard so there's a false statement right off the bat) but, i think these new rules are just a way of cutting the cost of all the applications for exemptions that LTNZ have to trawl through.
The rules are so lame and so easy to argue against their credibility that anyone can give an argument for an exemption. The new rules will lessen their workload and costs.
If they are really working towards safer riding then it wouldn't be so easy to get a licence. Riding round a few cones and answering some ridiculously easy questions that are mostly not getting at core riding skills is not testing anyones real ability to handle a motorcycle safely.
I'm currently looking into some rider training cos no matter how capable i think i am there will always be something that can be taught to me to improve my skills and my safety as a by-product.
The ridiculous thing is how hard it is to get that training. I started a thread about how it's impossible to get lessons in my area from a certified school and i think it's unbelievable.
If there is noone in any given area willing to provide lessons and / or training commercially then it should be LTNZ or the Police who are responsible for providing it.
Shit, even just one hour every month where anyone willing to learn can turn up and get at least the basics of riding demonstrated would be better than nothing.
If i didn't have a computer, i wouldn't even know what countersteering was! Imagine that.

[Rev DJ]

... had a quick chat to a policy guy I know at LTNZ and they are leaning heavily towards the power/weight calculation. They would then provide a list of "suitable" bikes for learner or restricted riders, that is, bikes that are "rated" at less than or equal to 150kw/tonne. The 660cc limit is on the back burner... GN250's for everybody then
Cheers DJ

[mark247]

i think these new rules are just a way of cutting the cost of all the applications for exemptions that LTNZ have to trawl through.

It costs $21 to apply for an exemption, and all i get from that is a piece of paper and someones time to read my letter. I bet they are making a profit from that!

[Rosie]

... had a quick chat to a policy guy I know at LTNZ and they are leaning heavily towards the power/weight calculation. They would then provide a list of "suitable" bikes for learner or restricted riders, that is, bikes that are "rated" at less than or equal to 150kw/tonne.

Differing methods for measuring/calculating dry weights could make this interesting. Some manufacturers claim dry weights that are crazily low, and some claim more realistic everything-but-the-fuel weights.
Manufacturers with more honest weights will have more powerful bikes get onto the list.

Everyone will be learning to ride on KTMs