NZ Herald article - Born agains...

[madbikeboy]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/...ectid=10501290

KatMan's going to love this one...

[GaZBur]

I find that article condescending and offensive -
"...Mr Kirk said most older people returning to the transport mode of their youth generally retained the physical skills needed to ride motorcycles.
But he said ageing reflexes meant many were mentally ill-equipped to handle the higher-performance machines now available, and needed basic education tips on how to get out of trouble, such as to ease their brakes into a swerve to avoid a head-on crash."

What bullshit!!! I am 50 this year and willing to bet my reactions are no worse than most 20somethings! I ride track days and race and see a bunch of older riders doing very well and nothing wrong with thier reactions.

The real problem with born again riders is the ones who did all their youth riding on an XL175 then buy a sportsbike coz they can afford it now. They werent high performance riders in thier youth so they shouldnt think they have magically developed high performace riding skills over the years of not riding at all!

Its like saying young riders dont have the mental maturity to ride - hang on - I rave read articles that are actually saying that too! OK so only people betwee the ages of 25 and 35 should be allowed to ride sports bikes then.

[Tank]

I find that article condescending and offensive -


What bullshit!!! I am 50 this year and willing to bet my reactions are no worse than most 20somethings!

yeah - prove it - reply to this post real quick ...... come on 'ol man (p/t)

[GaZBur]

yeah - prove it - reply to this post real quick ...... come on 'ol man (p/t)

Bugger 3 mins reaction time - so not so great - but i did make a coffee and go to the toilet between times and you dont usually do that on the road.

[Tank]

Bugger 3 mins reaction time - so not so great - but i did make a coffee and go to the toilet between times and you dont usually do that on the road.

Rather impressive (assuming that the coffee wasnt instant).

I think you have proved worthy and should be allowed on the road for another year.

[vifferman]

The problem is old riders have small nuts.

[ManDownUnder]

Actually I agree with it.

I was off a bike for 8 years, got on the RF and the power just blew me away. I'm naturally conservative so took it easy for qwuite a while (4 months or 6 months?) deliverately keeping the revs below 5,000 the whole time.

When I was ready I did a track day, that dropped me "back in the groove" and I've been improvng ever since.

Take someone out of a car for 8 years then let them loose in a V8. The mnature view on the world certainly helps moderate the risk but if you're not familiar with the various critical performance characteristics of the machine you're in charge of... you're screwed.

[98tls]

"The number of injuries has risen 80%" sounds about the same figure for new dairy farms.

[Edbear]

...The real problem with born again riders is the ones who did all their youth riding on an XL175 then buy a sportsbike coz they can afford it now. They werent high performance riders in thier youth so they shouldnt think they have magically developed high performace riding skills over the years of not riding at all!.

I think you'll find that that was the main point of the article, us old fullas who rode T500's putting out a whopping 45hp, go and buy bikes putting out another 100 or so and get caught out badly!

I "returned" in '03 with a GSX-F600 and at 80hp had twice the power of the old "T", and that nearly got me in trouble the first time I "played" with an Audi Quattro over the Waiwera hill! The fact that the brakes and handling and tyres were lightyears ahead of the T as well, saved my bacon, along with reflexes and 35 years experience driving all manner of vehicles.

Yes, I reckon my reflexes and reactions are at least as good as ever, probably better due to experience enabling me to predict situations and drive/ride defensively, but the incident with the Audi, gave me pause for concern and I spent some time getting used to the acceleration, brakes and handling before pushing the envelope again...

[90s]

I basically agree with the article, and in other threads the most recent 1980-1996 stats clearly bear out that it is older riders who are crashing more. The 80% increase is a very misleading figure mind.

However, there are several problems with the article. The first is that the crucial reflexes aren't pysical but mental. Training and familiarity mean that in an emergency you "do the right thing" by reflex, and that is what is missing when a "born again" overcooks it or gets out of hand.

I think the article usefully highlights the stupidity of scimping on prevention and education but paying up the cleanup bills. And most older riders returning to bikes after a long gap - and I was one until a few years ago - actually want some type of refresher. I did RRRS eventually, and think it should be publically funded and widely available.

The second thing that the article misses is the controversial role of groupriding - a fairly new type of acitvity - in the increasing accidents of older riders. This isn't a skills problem, its a social thing.

[90s]

I "returned" in '03 with a GSX-F600 and at 80hp had twice the power of the old "T", and that nearly got me in trouble the first time I "played" with an Audi Quattro over the Waiwera hill! The fact that the brakes ... were lightyears ahead of the T as well, saved my bacon, along with reflexes and 35 years experience driving all manner of vehicles.

As a GSX600F rider I have to say "holy moly" if your old T had worse brakes than the F!

(no, I've riden drum-braked bikes and the FJ is at least a little better than them ... )

[sinfull]

Bugger 3 mins reaction time - so not so great - but i did make a coffee and go to the toilet between times and you dont usually do that on the road.

Rushes back into the room still shaking it !!

14 yr break for this old coote and thats not even a pillion ride, jumped on the triple (not as quick as some bikes ya might say) but after only ever riding cruisers, with trail bikes in my teens as well, the grump was enough to scare this old fella ! But i was also old enough (wont say wise) to know to gradually scare myself more and more rather than give it its all in the first weeks !
Have to love the track days !
Ok might even go back and read that artical now lol

[Ixion]

I think you'll find that that was the main point of the article, us old fullas who rode T500's putting out a whopping 45hp, go and buy bikes putting out another 100 or so and get caught out badly!

.

No, the problem is not with those who seriously rode performance bikes years ago. A T500 or T120 might not have had the horsepower of todays machines, but they were still fast enough to get the rider into serious trouble. F'instance , according to manufacturers figures the 'new' Bonniville is actually slower than the 'old' one. Riders who rode fast machinery back in the day and survived will have learned the skills that are needed for modern machines (long absence may have dulled the skills and taken the edge of alertness - I find that happens even if I don't ride for a week. But that will come back quickly)

The real problem is the guy who rode a CB125 or suchlike to University back in the day. And because there was no GDLS then, he has a full licence. And decides he wants a bike . Odds are it'll be a Harley or similar. And although they are not fast they are a lot faster then his CB125. And commuting to University he never really learned much in the way of riding and survival skills anyway. (If he does go for a sprotsbike , it's even worse of course).

But that's not really a function of being 'born again', it's simply a function of an inherited defect in the licencing system. He shouldn't really have a full class 6. Helen Clark will have a full class 6 (she rode a step through at uni) , but would hardly be likely to be safe on a big bike

[BIGBOSSMAN]

In my case, the article is complete bullshit. I binned my last bike in '86 (RG500), and last year bought a ZX10R. No problems whatsoever, I took my time getting used to the power/handling etc and just love the thing to bits.
Could do with a bit more power though...

[sinfull]

Could do with a bit more power though...

What he said !!!