North Head tunnels?

[SixPackBack]

Awesome thread... Nothing like dark cavernous tunnels to send the imagination of a young boy (or older man) tripping!

Where are these tunnels exactly - near Auckland or?.

Correct. Situated on the North Shore in Devonport. Devonport is one of Aucklands oldest suburbs that contains a long running naval base, and two large, strategically important hills [Mt Victoria and North head].

[Mikkel]

Correct. Situated on the North Shore in Devonport. Devonport is one of Aucklands oldest suburbs that contains a long running naval base, and two large, strategically important hills [Mt Victoria and North head].

Ah...

I've had a look on the map of that area before and thought that those two hills looked interesting! They don't appear that big though - I'd wouldn't have thought that a large network of tunnels would fit in there...

[SixPackBack]

Ah...

I've had a look on the map of that area before and thought that those two hills looked interesting! They don't appear that big though - I'd wouldn't have thought that a large network of tunnels would fit in there...

Check out google earth. Pay attention to the naval base close by, at least one large tunnel does exist extending back from the base and as Mr Ixion asserts the tunnel legend includes the naval base tunnel connecting to North head.

[Ixion]

FFS sake you lot! i have to spoil a good story, but I don't think there is anything there that's undiscovered.
Go and have a look for yourselves!
There ain't nothing there except a few measly tunnels to frighten 5 year olds.
Go on, grab a torch and have a look.
I'm looking at north head and Mt Vic right now, and I ain't seen anything like it.
But now, as for fuel tanks, don't buy a property anywhere the Navy base.
Big ones underground thar...

With respect mate, but how old are you?

I'm sure there's nothing accessible (readily, anyway) now. But 50 years ago , things were different.

I doubt any recollections later than the early 60s are worth anything, after that everything was sealed off.

NZ in the early stages of WW2 was very scared, North Head would quite certainly have been fortified against an invasion. And with more thna antique guns.

[Ixion]

Check out google earth. Pay attention to the naval base close by, at least one large tunnel does exist extending back from the base and as Mr Ixion asserts the tunnel legend includes the naval base tunnel connecting to North head.

You can clearly see the evidence of underground works on Google earth. Those would be near the surface, but no fortification architect would have put into batteries that were not connected.

[SixPackBack]

With respect mate, but how old are you?

I'm sure there's nothing accessible (readily, anyway) now. But 50 years ago , things were different.

I doubt any recollections later than the early 60s are worth anything, after that everything was sealed off.

NZ in the early stages of WW2 was very scared, North Head would quite certainly have been fortified against an invasion. And with more thna antique guns.

What else can you tell us Ixion??

[The Stranger:Me]

yeah have you guys been in north head tunnels......yes most are now sealed but aircraft? the mountain isn't that big...........and what really would be the point in putting an aircraft in it would be in pieces so would need to be put together once pulled out, iv'e heard the rumours before but personally I only really think there's old armaments....

Nah the tunnels lead to another dimension, so there is plenty of room.

[Ixion]

What else can you tell us Ixion??

Not much really. A bunch of kids in the fifties (I was born and brought up on the shore, and had rellies at Narrow Neck).

Like all kids, getting into places we should not have.

Climbed down the cliff face (it was over the sea , wouldn't have been much of a dare if it wasn't). Came down to this small shelf bit , and found it had a tunnel mouth into the hillside. "Go on, dare y'. I'm not scared. Just uh, Mum will be cross if I get dirty. Yah yah yah". So of course we had to go on in.

The entrance was semi fallen in (I think earth had fallen from above), but we climbed over it. Narrow, only ever had been narrow, about wide enough for a grown man to go through .

Inside, was a tunnel.

We came back later with candles and a torch, and went further in. Tunnels, rooms (not huge, about the size of a large room in a house, or smaller)

Found some stairs, up and down, but not beside each other (ie if you went down one flight the flight down to the next lower level was in a different place).

Probably concrete floors and walls, but very dirty. Piles of rubbish (old crates and stuff, but all empty as far as we could see), broken timber here and there, mostly in corners, as if they'd been dumped there when the room was cleared out.

We thought we heard voices and noises once or twice but that might be boyish imaginations working overtime.

None of the places we found seemed to have an exit to the outside.

There were steel doors in there, some closed (we couldn't open them , but we were small kids in the dark); some ajar (we could push a few of those more open); and some open.

We went back a few more times, furthest we went was about a half hours walk, in a vaguely straight line .

Some of the rooms had had shelves along the walls.

It was pretty smelly.

Looked for the entrance some years later as a teenager. Though I saw where it was, but I was not so keen then on scrambling around on cliff faces, and there was no way to get a girl down there, so there didn't seem much point.

Couldn't tell you what direction it all ran in, it's pretty hard to keep oriented underground.

I do know that the Navy (or Army?) were still 'in residence' on the Head, you couldn't go there then. We climbed along the cliffs from Cheltenham.

Once the Navy left (maybe 1960 something), I remmeber going up there to look around, but there was no sign of any tunnels or anything, even less than nowdays.

There was a big flat area with steel mushrooms across it (ventilators for an underground room), can't remmeber if that was Mt Victoria or North head. Quite a large area.

EDIT You quite definately cannot access what we found as kids from any of the publically accesible areas nowdays.

[SixPackBack]

Cheers Ixion. Trying to find information on North Head is not easy, and unfortunately those in the know are getting long in the tooth or dead.

[R6_kid:Me]

There was a big flat area with steel mushrooms across it (ventilators for an underground room), can't remmeber if that was Mt Victoria or North head. Quite a large area.

EDIT You quite definately cannot access what we found as kids from any of the publically accesible areas nowdays.

Mushrooms are on Mt Vic...

I remember seeing a lookout point on the seaward cliff of North Head.

North head has the better public tunnels, but I am certainly interested to venture deeper if it is possible. Would be good to try and map the tunnels, and use some decent powered torches/search lights to illuminate things.

[The Stranger:Me]

Would be good to try and map the tunnels, and use some decent powered torches/search lights to illuminate things.

DOC did this in the ninties, including drilling and excavating. Turned up sweet FA, unless of course that was a cover up to try and conceal the real truth, that the moon landing was actually filmed there.

[Magua]

I've had a lot of fun exploring at North Head.

These tunnels Ixion talks of are intriguing. Can KB uncover the mysteries of the past?

[Ixion]

Actually, it appears that the DoC investigation picked up from an abandoned joint project between the government and the army in 1990 that had to be abandoned when the army pulled out after 4 weeks. The government (and DoC) refused to proceed with deep tunnelling without the Army, claiming fears of ancient ordnance. The DoC investigation was confined to archeological studies (ie, surface stuff).

That there are, or once were, tunnel complexes there is , IMHO, quite certain. I have the knowledge of what I saw, and reports of numerous other people. Moreover, it is simple common sense that there would have been a support complex for the batteries. You don't just put in gun batteries and then leave them to it.

In the event of an invasion the gun crews would have been sealed up, under bombardment, perhaps for days.(there would have been more gun emplacements than you see nowdays - with modern guns).

They would need to be supplied with orders, stores, ammo, food. Wounded would need to be evacuated, and reliefs supplied. Only an utter idiot would not make covered provison for that.

And there would have been radio rooms, map rooms, store rooms.

There's nothing unusual about this, it's just standard fortification stuff. Sydney's own North Head had a similar complex (though theirs is admitted).

In the event, we never had to fight. After the battles of the Coral Sea and Midway , it was obvious that the Japs were unlikely to make it this far, and interest in fortification waned. But , until then, the NZ military assumed that they would have to fight for King and Country. And, hopefully do a less yellow bellied effort of it than that consummate coward General Percival in Singapore, and his equally gutless mate Admiral Sommerville (one of the very few RN commanders to run away from the enemy !). They would have been guilty of gross negligence if they had NOT prepared extensive fortifications to support the Dominion's largest city and chief naval base.

How much of it remains now is another matter. And I doubt that there would be anything in there of interest, other than to archeologists , who can become orgasmic over an old button. And any records are probably still classified.

[SixPackBack]

DOC did this in the ninties, including drilling and excavating. Turned up sweet FA, unless of course that was a cover up to try and conceal the real truth, that the moon landing was actually filmed there.

Funny you should mention that.........I have just had a long chat with my father who is one of New Zealand's leading Philatelic historians. He has letters and communications from troops stationed at north head during the second world war. His recollection includes a book that was scripted about ten years ago with information pertinent to the tunnels. In a nut shell the theory [supported by various sources] has ascertained that indeed tunnels did exist-big tunnels-lots of tunnels......and the main reason the government are keen to keep the whole thing on the QT is undoubtedly unstable armaments and/or the tunnels.

I shall be seeing Dad next Saturday and will question him further, checking out his philatelic evidence will also be illuminating.

The hunt is now on for this 'book' if anyone can help finding/sourcing historical documents I would be most appreciative

[Ixion]

I think (IMHO) that the chance of there being any ammunition down there is so close to zero that we would be better off worrying about that meteor.

The Army and navy are most anal about ammunition. It's very important to them, and they keep very close tabs on it. Things like motorbikes, general stores, aeroplanes, pouufff, who cares: but ammo, that they always deal with.

Any ordnance that was under there will have been taken out and moved, destroyed, or dumped at sea (the latter far the most likely).

There might be a few buttons down there thoug, if that's what turns you on

The government reluctance to admit anything is just the usual "don't let's rock the boat" syndrome.

Suppose someone DID prove there were tunnels and such like down there. Can you imagine the fuss? OMG - What if the mountain falls down. OMG what about property values. OMG how can you be SURE there aren't atom bombs down there WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE BLOWN UP. OMG think of the children.

Just think of the H&S implications? And the Resource managemnt Act problems.

Much better to deny everything.