Cellphone companies call for ban while driving

[Ixion]

Google maps uses it to display current location on phones and pdas. It's pretty inaccurate, up to 5 km out in some cases. Never closer than about 1 km, except once when it got it with a few metres.

[rwh]

Google maps uses it to display current location on phones and pdas. It's pretty inaccurate, up to 5 km out in some cases. Never closer than about 1 km, except once when it got it with a few metres.

I'm not about to test this since I've switched to prepay and data is expensive.

But are you suggesting that vodafone or telecom will happily hand over my location to google? Or does it require some active software on my phone to get the data from the telco and pass it on?

I thought it took them some time to work it out, anyway, once asked by the police or whoever.

Richard

[Ixion]

Well, it requires Google Maps! Which requires a cell connection. That's it. I don't think the phone companies are handing anything over, it's just triangulation. I doubt that the location info goes back to Google, why would they care?

You just press '0' with the map app open and it thinks for about 5 to 10 seconds and says 'You are about hereish'. Handy to get the right map centred, not accurate enough for much else, unless you are really totally Disco Dan grade lost, I guess.

(You can also plug a true GPS receiver into the map app, but that's a different matter)

[Squiggles]

cellphone companies are calling for the ban so they can make more money by selling hands free kits. unfortunately research shows that handsfree doesn't make much difference.....

Less chance of a blindspot accident though.

[scumdog]

Less chance of a blindspot accident though.

Oh?
Have you never been in a car when somebody has been using a 'hands-free' - and seen the driver staring at the sun-visor where the mike is or at the lower dash where their phone is clipped on while they are driving/talking.?

[candor]

As enigma said - we'd know they were interested in road safety if they got serious about drink driving rather than the speed of drinkers... eg heres a novel idea; penalties...
and if like all other countries we got a dept with primary responsibility for road safety... dreams are free.

But no... we are different... unique... isolationist in our experiment. No body exists to specialise and target road safety. With the formula there is no need.

Treasury ttransport division is hands on with this one. The memorandum of understanding between all road safey interested depts essentially states that "thou shalt not stray from using this formula (below) penned by an evil economist". The whodunnit and how of NZs high level road toll is found in a formula believe it or not.

The formula for road policing resource allocation model - specified as NZs total road safety package (and prolly reason why noone wants to be road police manager for longer than 6 mths), was just acquired by a road safety group affiliated to Candor Trust under official information Act 16 April.

The mathematical formula dictates ALL significant road safety action under the intensive enforcement experimental model and forbids anything else. Even significant road safety education is banned except where it is required to "legitimise in the mind of the public the current selected enforcement policies" - based on economists advice education doesn't work. By which logic we'd close schools next???? Sorry some characters within formula eg cosine etc are not avail on my keyboard so will do best I can and to explain the boffins murder equation.

S1 = (Ej@jVij) - (EjHijBjVij0jLij-Gj) - (EkHjkBkVik0kLik-Sk)
Formula addresses 3 of 19 crash factors, has an "Auckland dummy factor" to capture the 16 unattended causes (nb. attended in all other countries!)

In longhand minus numeric values - social cost of road crashes = (summation operator of district police speed / alcohol quotas x coefficient of them x vehicle kms travelled minus summation operator of district police speed / alcohol quotas x numbers of road policing hours for speed / lcohol exponent x exponent of vehicle kms travelled by local authority and police district delivered activity (speed / alcohol fishing) x road length in area minus exponent of police district delivered activity) - summation operator of the select road policing activities x number of speed / alcohol / belt hours (tickets per hour) x exponent of road policing activity in local authority cluster group x vehicle kms x exponent of roadplicing activity x length of road by authoriy and police activity level - exponent of road policing activity).

Plain English - NZ Road deaths and injuries equal risk on a roads length minus speed and alcohol policing impact.

The formula was found to be fatally flawed (no pun intended) in 3 recent reviews by MOT - it has increased weekday and daytime fatality risk, but remains operational according to senior Police's correspondence. Though the Ministry of transport which collates data weekly to test the formula say the project is not operational pending better primary data provision.

This might sound like boring academic stuff. But it is key to Govts paralysis on cellphonesand so many other road safety issues. Interest in revenue - high, interest in reduced carnage - zero. The Ministers are not aware of their boffins and economists grotesque activities and have been lied to re impacts (well known since 2005).

It seems to me ridiculous to indirectly fund the ?entire Police force by ticket fines. To my mind there should be no dependency and Police shouldn't be told - no attending burgs or major homicide investigations unless you pull your weight with scalp hunting of boy racers etc (who incidentally cause tiny proportion of the toll). Isn't basic service what income tax ought cover?

[rwh]

Well, it requires Google Maps! Which requires a cell connection. That's it. I don't think the phone companies are handing anything over, it's just triangulation. I doubt that the location info goes back to Google, why would they care?

You just press '0' with the map app open and it thinks for about 5 to 10 seconds and says 'You are about hereish'. Handy to get the right map centred, not accurate enough for much else, unless you are really totally Disco Dan grade lost, I guess.

Ok, so you have to have an app installed. Google Earth rather than Google Maps perhaps?

I can't even use that on my laptop, since they don't do a 64-bit linux version yet (last I checked).

Richard

[Ixion]

No, definately google maps.

[rwh]

"Sorry, Google Maps does not work on your Nokia 6820."

Oh well - will have to leave that investigation for another day.

Richard

[Hitcher]

Google Maps works on my Palm Treo. It's just brilliant. But OMIGOD! Have you seen what Telecom charges for cellular internet access? Gahh! Thud.

[Dodger]

I think it's time we installed that spike in the centre of all steering wheels.

[sefer]

What you're attempting to describe isn't GPS. It's a system where the phone triangulates itself in relation to the known location of fixed cellphone transmitters. There are no satellites involved, nor any "GPS" technology.

Nope I'm talking about GPS.

[Genestho]

No not surprised at all to the initial question.

If you'd bothered to read further I did say that "I agree that, once a crime is committed, the consequences should be more severe".

My point is that I don't think penalties are much of a deterrent.

Agreed our penalties are not much of a deterrent, but NZ'ers need to stop thinking in terms of deterrents, there are no deterrents to people that dont care for others. Its a big viscious cycle.

Respect for others whether it be on the road or not is not like it was in our quaint country, responsibilty for ones own actions seem to be out the door.

Early intervention, and plucking the dangers out of our midst is not about deterrents, but for our safety on the roads and in our community.
Prevention before cost, we are always paying the cost (monetry and loss of life) yet seem to have no money for prevention, Im probably just a simple practical thinker but seems topsy turvy to me...
check out the statistical cost of road fatalities:

http://www.transport.govt.nz/socialcost/


I remember cellphones while driving were banned in Aus ten years ago when I lived there, the catalyst being when a model - Nicky Taylor crashed, I cant quite remember if she was on the cell or someone else was using the cell.

Theres a witty wee email/cartoon doing the rounds in regards to Harrys inaction to banning cell phones on our roads (amongst other things!)
Seems very reflective to all things transport and roading right now..

[candor]

Agreed our penalties are not much of a deterrent, but NZ'ers need to stop thinking in terms of deterrents,

Theres a witty wee email/cartoon doing the rounds... .

Yup second that. Road safety is not all about deterrents. And while the word "penalties" may not be PC in a responsibility less country penalties actually do many good things. Smacking not excluded.

In the words of someone I think highly of - no-one ever committed a second murder while in jail.

Likewise no-one ever killed another road user while behind bars, or after their car got crushed..... Not suggesting we jail cellphone users, but no penalty or deterrent does not seem like a great message either. Its about careless ness which can lead to culpability (serious victimising culpability).

Would that be the cartoon in which Harry features in his new role - minister of gravedigging?