Speeding ticket. Do I have grounds to contest this??

[mattian]

Umm i rode without a speedo cable for well over a month and did not get a ticket. Why didnt you just go by the rev counter?

My bike doesn't have a rev counter......

[Swoop]

If you were riding with your fingers crossed, you are sweet! They cannot get ya when you have your fingers crossed.

[Sanx]

They generally don't guess - being that no evidence means they can't really charge you.

But a Police Officer's wild arse guess / complete fabrication is classed as expert evidence in court, and therefore can be relied upon without the slightest but of real evidence to back it up. At least in traffic cases; I believe in criminal ones Police officers have to do slightly more to get a conviction than turn up in court and say "It was 'im, ya 'onour, I saw 'im".

[shafty]

I think you have a case Mattian - the Officer didn't "clock" you - ie follow at the same speed to check your speed, he didn't use a radar (as I understand it), he had no laser, nor was a camera involved. Sounds like you've got a rough deal.

I don't believe your mention of no speedo will count against you AT THIS STAGE - he would've had to have ticketed you for that at the time. It's a bit like being asked at a Drink Drive check point "Have you been drinking" . If you say "No" and the test proves you have, - you don't get charged with lying!

It depends if you can be bothered, but you could contest the case in court. If you indicate your wish to - ithe case may never make it there - ie the Officer may decide his time is better spent elsewhere.

If you took it to court, the question I would ask is "How can the prosecution prove what speed I was doing?"

The Judge MAY not agree with you, but surely estimating someones speed from head on within 10 or 15 km's of the limit is pushing the boundaries of reasonable doubt?

I think the Officer was pretty unreasonable, tho he may have been targeting a group of motorists presently being "focussed on".

A Mate riding perfectly legally with his wife on his immac ST1100 had a Cop Car swerve across the road (coming towards him) to pull him over. Pretty dumb manoevre if you ask me. When questioned about it, the Officer said they were targetting m/cycles and "You are the first one I've seen all day"

[mattian]

I think you have a case Mattian - the Officer didn't "clock" you - ie follow at the same speed to check your speed, he didn't use a radar (as I understand it), he had no laser, nor was a camera involved. Sounds like you've got a rough deal.

I don't believe your mention of no speedo will count against you AT THIS STAGE - he would've had to have ticketed you for that at the time. It's a bit like being asked at a Drink Drive check point "Have you been drinking" . If you say "No" and the test proves you have, - you don't get charged with lying!

It depends if you can be bothered, but you could contest the case in court. If you indicate your wish to - ithe case may never make it there - ie the Officer may decide his time is better spent elsewhere.

If you took it to court, the question I would ask is "How can the prosecution prove what speed I was doing?"

The Judge MAY not agree with you, but surely estimating someones speed from head on within 10 or 15 km's of the limit is pushing the boundaries of reasonable doubt?

I think the Officer was pretty unreasonable, tho he may have been targeting a group of motorists presently being "focussed on".

A Mate riding perfectly legally with his wife on his immac ST1100 had a Cop Car swerve across the road (coming towards him) to pull him over. Pretty dumb manoevre if you ask me. When questioned about it, the Officer said they were targetting m/cycles and "You are the first one I've seen all day"

Holy heck.... did your mate take that incident any further?? It amazes me the way police can make all kinds of illegal manouvres to catch up to someone they "suspect" of exceeding the speed limit even by a little bit. In my case, he had to make a U-turn and then accelerate well past 60 or 65 just to catch up with me. To be honest with you.... when I saw him pull over initially, I thought about putting the power on and taking the nearest side street. I probably would have got away..... but, then thought better of it. I don't want to be one of those riders....... I want to live to enjoy my biking

[MaxB]

Holy heck.... did your mate take that incident any further?? It amazes me the way police can make all kinds of illegal manouvres to catch up to someone they "suspect" of exceeding the speed limit even by a little bit. In my case, he had to make a U-turn and then accelerate well past 60 or 65 just to catch up with me. To be honest with you.... when I saw him pull over initially, I thought about putting the power on and taking the nearest side street. I probably would have got away..... but, then thought better of it. I don't want to be one of those riders....... I want to live to enjoy my biking

This is how they get away with it. Issue a low level ticket to 'teach you a lesson' that is below the $130 court costs for you to fight it. I guess you might as well pay up and move on.

A lot of countries now require 'documentary evidence' (printout, photo second cop, witness) along with the police opinion to secure a successful ticket. Maybe one day we will get it here?

[Skyryder]

It is impossible to to estiamte accurately oncoming speed. There is a thread in here somewhere on this very topic. You have two choices. Go for the cheapo and pay up. Or defend the charge. As the law now stands the police can give evidence on their estimated speed of the offender. The question you need to ask the officer in 'cross' is what are the paremetres that you (he) used to estimate ('my') your speed. No doubt he will come up with experiance etc but you are not asking how long he has been a cop etc but what the parameters he used to estiamte a speed of 65Kph.

Skyryder

[mattian]

It is impossible to to estiamte accurately oncoming speed. There is a thread in here somewhere on this very topic. You have two choices. Go for the cheapo and pay up. Or defend the charge. As the law now stands the police can give evidence on their estimated speed of the offender. The question you need to ask the officer in 'cross' is what are the paremetres that you (he) used to estimate ('my') your speed. No doubt he will come up with experiance etc but you are not asking how long he has been a cop etc but what the parameters he used to estiamte a speed of 65Kph.

Skyryder

Cheers bro.... I have decided to pay the fine. I know that if I decided to make a stand and take it as far as court I probably would have had the ticket dismissed however, as it was pointed out to me earlier on in the piece..... by rights, he could have done me for not riding a vehicle up to wof standard because my speedo wasnt working.... but, he didn't. That would have been a $200 fine so,... I kinda feel like he did cut me some slack. This is my first ever ticket and an experience I dont want to repeat.

[peasea]

Cheers bro.... I have decided to pay the fine. I know that if I decided to make a stand and take it as far as court I probably would have had the ticket dismissed however, as it was pointed out to me earlier on in the piece..... by rights, he could have done me for not riding a vehicle up to wof standard because my speedo wasnt working.... but, he didn't. That would have been a $200 fine so,... I kinda feel like he did cut me some slack. This is my first ever ticket and an experience I dont want to repeat.

If you don't want another ticket; sell your bike.

He didn't cut you any slack, he just didn't think of booking you for the WOF thing. (Young buck, was he? Spotty-faced?) Sure, you're not supposed to be out on a bike with no speedo (unless it's a 1903 Velocipede, which don't have speedo's from the factory) but my guess is, assuming you were in a line of traffic and travelling at the same pace as that traffic, he fingered you coz you were on a bike. My experience with North Shore cops points to that being the most likely scenario. You're easy meat pal.

Plead not guilty to every ticket, sometimes they can't be arsed and you save a few dollars; it doesn't happen very often but it does happen. At worst you get the satisfaction of having your say in court, it gives the cop more paperwork and it gets the twat off the road for a couple of hours so the rest of us can cruise past the courthouse at 65kph.


If we live in the area that is.

[mattian]

Sell my bike ............................Never !! I would take it to bed with me every night if I could
As for the speedo...... just waiting for the new cable to arrive and it will be fixed soon enough. You're right, I do believe he targeted me becuse I was on a bike....... I was following the car in front of me at a safe distance at the same speed but, because I am on a bike, it just "looks" as if I am coming around the corner a little quicker. He obviously had his quota to fill that day and saw me as easy pickings......

[sinfull]

I notice no one has bothered (apart from Nasy mentioning his machine ) to ask Mattian if he realises most unmarked cops have whats called a hawk radar !
Doubt very much he just estimated you at 65 !
You are within your rights to ask to see the hawk to check what speed he clocked you at !
You are also within your rights to ask for proof of callibration of said hawk and i believe the callibration of said callibrator also, if ya wanna push it !
there is a small chance these are not up to date and the cost would out way the fine you have, so make it simpler to wave your ticket !
Never tried it myself but have heard of it happening !
Personally i'm thinking fair cop, you really have no idea what speed you were doing so do the time !

[scumdog]

Sell my bike ............................Never !! I would take it to bed with me every night if I could
As for the speedo...... just waiting for the new cable to arrive and it will be fixed soon enough. You're right, I do believe he targeted me becuse I was on a bike....... I was following the car in front of me at a safe distance at the same speed but, because I am on a bike, it just "looks" as if I am coming around the corner a little quicker. He obviously had his quota to fill that day and saw me as easy pickings......

Check your PMs, advice to be read...

[marty]

I notice no one has bothered (apart from Nasy mentioning his machine ) to ask Mattian if he realises most unmarked cops have whats called a hawk radar !
Doubt very much he just estimated you at 65 !
You are within your rights to ask to see the hawk to check what speed he clocked you at !
You are also within your rights to ask for proof of callibration of said hawk and i believe the callibration of said callibrator also, if ya wanna push it !
there is a small chance these are not up to date and the cost would out way the fine you have, so make it simpler to wave your ticket !
Never tried it myself but have heard of it happening !
Personally i'm thinking fair cop, you really have no idea what speed you were doing so do the time !

HAWK radar units were thrown out in the late 90's.

STALKER units are now mostly in use, they have front and rear radar, and 'following speed' ability.

At the very least, you should request disclosure (I'm picking SD has covered that in his PM anyway..)

[Ixion]

If you don't want another ticket; sell your bike.

He didn't cut you any slack, he just didn't think of booking you for the WOF thing. (Young buck, was he? Spotty-faced?) Sure, you're not supposed to be out on a bike with no speedo (unless it's a 1903 Velocipede, which don't have speedo's from the factory) but my guess is, assuming you were in a line of traffic and travelling at the same pace as that traffic, he fingered you coz you were on a bike. ...

1950 is the date before which no speedo is required. But there is a little known out, though I doubt it would serve your need

from the Vehicle Equipment Rule 2004

Mandatory equipment
1.A motorcycle fi rst registered in New Zealand on or
after 1/12/1951 that is capable of a speed exceeding
50 km/h must be fi tted with a speedometer.
2.A motorcycle is not required to have a speedometer
if:
3.the speedometer or associated equipment has been
removed for repair and there are no undue delays by
the vehicle owner in having it replaced,or
4.the speedometer or associated equipment is out
of repair,repair is impracticable and a suitable
replacement is not available.

So you have to have a speedo unless it's broken.

[sinfull]

HAWK radar units were thrown out in the late 90's.

STALKER units are now mostly in use, they have front and rear radar, and 'following speed' ability

Well there ya go, lol shows how often i've been checking the clocked speed (god knows ther've been enough !)