Can a motorbike out brake a car?

[cowpoos]

Most engines crank spins the same way as the wheels I think Poosey, so as it slows it would increase the forward rolling momentum of the bike. Same as the freestylers doin back flips, they leave the ramp with clutch in at low revs, then rev shit out of it to help rotate the bike backwards, and throttle off to steady it for landing. So letting the revs drop as you brake hard would cause the bike to lift the rear more easily.

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Very clever theory Bro...but the crank is forward of the bikes theoretical piviot point.

But was not the point I was making besides..I was trying to exclaim that your brakes are slowing the engine inercia down aswell if the clutch is released..and you are not down changing using the engine braking.

[dipshit]

You do realise that the appeal to authority is the saddest of the classic logical fallacies, don't you?

Don't worry, you get these engineer types in all sorts of internet forms talking huge amounts of bollocks on a daily basis as if they are the ultimate authority on everything.

I see engineers in photography forums I hang out in for example, who could talk for ages and ages on pointless technical dribble as if photography could be broken down into science... yet these same engineers couldn't take a decent photo to save themselves.

[Subike]

Most engines crank spins the same way as the wheels I think Poosey, so as it slows it would increase the forward rolling momentum of the bike. .

are you talking about the engines kenetic inertia rotating in a forward direction upon decelleration?
Funny
I thought the engineers sused that out years ago, and the inertia is transfered rearward in IL4s, well Yamaha XS1100s do, as is the engine rotates anticlockwise when viewed from the right hand side if the bike,opposite direction to the wheels.

So thats not an argument


I also agree that using the engine braking under braking can be a learnt skill.
Hell Its easier than using the brakes into ordinary corners, I do it often. And under hard braking It can be done if you practice. Very harsh on the drive train, but then you want everything stopping you when needed .

[Drew]

are you talking about the engines kenetic inertia rotating in a forward direction upon decelleration?
Funny
I thought the engineers sused that out years ago, and the inertia is transfered rearward in IL4s, well Yamaha XS1100s do, as is the engine rotates anticlockwise when viewed from the right hand side if the bike,opposite direction to the wheels.

So thats not an argument


I also agree that using the engine braking under braking can be a learnt skill.
Hell Its easier than using the brakes into ordinary corners, I do it often. And under hard braking It can be done if you practice. Very harsh on the drive train, but then you want everything stopping you when needed .

It was just some bullshit I prattled out for poos' benefit mate. There's no actual thought involved, or anything resembling educated opinion.

The down shift thing is interesting, I dont remember ever doing it in an emegancy situation. And I've had more than my fair share.

[cowpoos]

There's no actual thought involved, or anything resembling educated opinion.
.

Well the was obvious!!

I miss our stupid debates for the sake of debating [or was it hearing our own voices??]

[Biggles2000]

I was taught to pull the clutch in under emergency breaking as the ammount of breaking from the motor varies with RPM and can be unpredictable to control. Also as the back wheel comes off the road load its better to be free spinning.
Hey dipshit i'm an engineer, can't spell to save my life but can do maths.

[Drew]

I was taught...

Not having a dig at you or your teacher mate, but I think this a classic case of people being "over taught".

I get a bit wound up when beginers start goin on about counter steering, and other things that take thier mind off what actually matters.

My advice for emergancy stopping to even the most experienced rider is as said in my ealier post. Hit the picks as much as poss', and if it aint lookin good, stand up on the pegs. The last bit is redundant I think, because both times I've hit a car, (one my fault, one not) I just did it without thinkin, as did my dad when someone pulled in front of him.

Keep it simple, the technical shit is just that...shit.

[quallman1234]

Too much too think about, just ride the thing!

[The Stranger:Me]

But was not the point I was making besides..I was trying to exclaim that your brakes are slowing the engine inercia down aswell if the clutch is released..and you are not down changing using the engine braking.

You are right, in some cases.
A good rider on a modern race replica type bike is capable out braking the engine, and lets face it, that's everyone isn't it? Well no, maybe 1 or 2%.
The rest they are better off with the clutch out.

Personally I take Drew’s point, i.e. Keep it simple. That will serve the vast majority much better.

How can you train for an emergency?
Well not too difficult.
What you do in an emergency is what you normally do i.e. what has become instinct.
Practice good habits in normal riding and that is what you will do in an emergency, simple.
The 2 main points I would make are
1) Front brake, unless you are on a cruiser.
2) 4 fingers on the lever, if you normally use 2, guess what you will do in an emergency?
3) Progressive braking. Apply some pressure, as the weight transfers apply more. A short sharp all out grab will probably just lock the front and increase braking distance, or worse.

If practised such that it is "normal" procedure you will do these as a matter of course in an emergency.

[sinfull]

if it aint lookin good, stand up on the pegs.

I was once forced by the courts to attend a defensive driving course, was only in my twenties and no i haven't become more responsible with age !
He was prattling on about emergancy stops and asked what should you do, if a head on was unavoidable, to which i answered * get off * He then proceeded to inform the class that you should stand on the seat and prepare to be catapalted over the car !
I thought then i was waisting my time there and still believe he was a clown !

When you say stand up on the pegs Drew, i presume ya mean spring off em if ya aint all twisted up sideways ?

[Masterchop]

This might answer some of the questions,but might change in the wet.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZZKRphfVHqI

[Kickaha]

He then proceeded to inform the class that you should stand on the seat and prepare to be catapalted over the car !
I thought then i was waisting my time there and still believe he was a clown !

You were right he was a clown, in that sort of situation I doubt you'd have time to do it anyway

When you say stand up on the pegs Drew, i presume ya mean spring off em if ya aint all twisted up sideways ?

Standing up on the pegs will supposedly get you clear of the bike when you impact without getting tangled on the handlebars on the way over and may also put you over instead of into whateever it is you're hitting

[dipshit]

and if it aint lookin good, stand up on the pegs.

I was thought this as well and is something I have always had in the back of my mind. If the hit is looking inevitable, stand up, and hopefully you'll go flying over the car, rather than through it.

[cowboyz]

at what point do you decide it is inevitable?

I have brushed my leg and shoulder up against the front of a truck that failed to giveway at a roundabout and made it That take SHITLOADS AND SHITLOADS OF LUCK to pull off but as always I ride to stay with the bike while it is still upright. After the bike is over then it is time to get as far away as possible.
I am not saying all (there is always an exception to the rule) but wondering how many crashes could be avoided (even if they werent the riders fault) if the rider didnt conceed that it was going to happen.

[sinfull]

nice vid ! I want one now (the duc that is, happy with my deisel lol)