Entrapment

**The Stranger:Me** · 30th May 2008, 11:07

Originally Posted by ManDownUnder

If anything I'd say the imperative is your personal safety which would require you to pull over (speeding up is easily argued to exchange one type of risk for another, and then you break a law or two... for which you will be nicked).

Pull over, get rego, complain... through offical channels.

I still have a hard time with entrapment though - even if they did a u-turn etc. If they did that and sat back obeying the 2 second rule would that be different? I don't understand which part of their actions would specifically constitute entrapment

Yes, sure, that is what I do, and what the other guys did as and when space and time permits. In narrow, tight twisties on an unlit road, part way through a corner being dazzled by full beams it's not just a case of instantly pulling over, but where safe to do so they did. Case closed as regards the bikers actions. But still I question the cops motives and actions.

The U-turn one is obviously HDTBoy taking piss, hence my reply was also taking piss.

**Morcs** · 30th May 2008, 11:11

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Given the basis of your question, I would recommend some caution before criticising others of being "pretty fucking dumb".

"Racing" or not is a matter of personal choice. If some nong is up your arse with their lights on high beam there is no imperative on you, as the driver of the car in front, to accelerate. I think you would have some difficulty pleading "entrapment" as a defence if you got nicked trying to outrun a Police vehicle that was following you.

I know this police officer quite well. He has taken my license twice, and shoveled on $2k of fines - yes hes just doing his job, but takes great satisfaction in it - not to mention being a wanker - tries to get you annoyed to say something stupid that he can do you for - seems he does the same thing on the road.

just last week on the ATNR, he was coming out of waitoki, full beams on straight at me. I flashed to let him know, and he just carried on as he were.

We are not cop bashing, just this particular cop.

He did a similar thing to chrislost a few weeks back on the auckland motorway, late at night, he was cruising at 95, said cop comes right up his arse, with high beams on, chris sped up to like 110 and gave him the finger out of frustration (as most of us would do to a normal car) and said cop pulls him over and throws the book at him. $1k+

**Tank** · 30th May 2008, 11:32

Originally Posted by Morcs

He did a similar thing to chrislost a few weeks back on the auckland motorway, late at night, he was cruising at 95, said cop comes right up his arse, with high beams on, chris sped up to like 110 and gave him the finger out of frustration (as most of us would do to a normal car) and said cop pulls him over and throws the book at him. $1k+

Um - how do you get 1k in fines for doing 110 on the m/way?

**mashman** · 30th May 2008, 11:34

If it is just a jumped up cop being a fuckwit, make an official compaint. They can search his citations and build a picture from there... If you also complain about his dangerous driving, high beams and taligating etc... the case can only be taken more seriously... Make the complaint though, don't just moan about him...

**Tank** · 30th May 2008, 11:38

Originally Posted by The Stranger

Do we have entrapment laws in NZ?
Isn't it both dangerous and entrapment when cops sit up your arse with their lights on high beam trying to goad you into racing?
Or is there another purpose to this dangerous driving technique?

As for the entrapment - Yeah right!

Impossible to prove their intent - despite what you think - there could be a number of reasons that he could argue.

What he was doing is dangerous driving. If a number of the riders who saw this all went to their local police station and lodged a complaint giving about the same time date etc with the guys rego then Im sure hes toast. going to the station holds a lot more weight than a *555

But Im guessing everyone will sit back do nothing and simply bitch about him and say that the police would do nothing about it anyway.

**CookMySock** · 30th May 2008, 12:14

Originally Posted by Tank

Um - how do you get 1k in fines for doing 110 on the m/way?

DB

**Jimmy B** · 30th May 2008, 12:18

Totally different set of circumstances but legal precedent can be odd that way. My Brother and his mate were about to get their heads stoved in by a number of scary dudes at a seedy establishment a few years back. My Brother legged it out the bathroom window, got the car round front while his mate made a massive bid for freedom with several pursuers.

They successfully escaped, gassed it and ran straight into a check point, done for DIC. The matter went before the courts and was successfully defended on the basis that you are allowed to break the law if you are trying to preserve your life or person from serious injury.

Seems to me if you're in a vulnerable situation and you flee to preserve your safety from a tail gating cop then you may just have a leg to stand on. I suspect their word against yours in the majority of cases….

Any Legal Beagles out there who are prepared to comment?

**Swoop** · 30th May 2008, 12:23

Originally Posted by Tank

Um - how do you get 1k in fines for doing 110 on the m/way?

All the "extras" that are added on?
WOF.
Rego.
Licence conditions.
Dangerous.
Etc.
Etc.

**FROSTY:Me** · 30th May 2008, 12:29

If there were enough guys on atnr then why not wright a letter of complaint re his dangerous driving. If he was following that close then its goota be dangerous ot at the least careless use It then comes down to the word of a police officer vs 20 odd members of the public.

**Mr Merde** · 30th May 2008, 12:33

Originally Posted by FROSTY

... It then comes down to the word of a police officer vs 20 odd members of the public.

And the loser would be.....?

**FROSTY:Me** · 30th May 2008, 12:33

Originally Posted by Swoop

All the "extras" that are added on?
WOF.Rego.Licence conditions.

Sorry but is that the cops fault?
I mean really Ya ride a bike with no rego/wof ya know the risk is $600 in fines --the rider madde that choice.
Ditto licence --if ya dumb enough to ride with no or incorrect licence then whose fault is it?
The other stuff--110 in a 100 zone is not a big fine

**FROSTY:Me** · 30th May 2008, 12:35

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

And the loser would be.....?

with 20 afidavits attesting to his driving unquestionably the cop

**Horse** · 30th May 2008, 12:35

Presumably someone on this ride has a video camera they use to record their rides occasionally. Mount it on the back of the bike and ride as tail-end charlie. Do it every ride. Every time you get aggro from this cop, make a complaint, including a _copy_ of the video, and witness statements from as many people on the ride as you can. Do it every time. After the 3rd complaint with no apparent action from the police, take copies of the videos and witness statements etc to the media.

Saying "this cop is being a prick" in KB isn't going to amount to a hill of beans. If you want to get the problem sorted properly you're going to have to (a) get organised and (b) work the system. Harder, but more satisfying in the end.