Countersteering, huh?

[The Stranger:Me]

The more weight "out" I need, I just put my shoulders out further - so I don't slide my arse whatsoever, just roll from one bum cheek to the other.

I find it is very easy to pull on the opposite bar too. Cough, I find I am settling into this habit, and I wonder if it is a bad thing. Should I stamp this out and return to the push ?

So what do you do with your inside shoulder? foreward or backward?

Personally, I prefer push the inside bar.
2 reasons.

1) It's easier to remember in a panic situation. Want to go left - push left.

2) All steering inputs should be with the inside arm only. The outside arm should only be resting there doing no work other than perhaps controlling the throttle. Better dexterity and if you steer with both arms, one will fight the other.

[quallman1234]

I must admit, im only starting to finally use this method. Have been racing and doing all sorts of different racing by just leaning the puppie over.

Hopefully it will help me improve. Who knows? i only race tiny little bikes.

I have noticed that you turn the oppisite direction for a wee second before dipping in using this technique.
However this made me ponder with the thought wouldn't all the weight of the bike be flung from (in a right turn) the left side of the bike then quickly over to the right side (inside) hence a certain amount of unstableness?, or is the suspension these days that good it doesn't matter?
Serious question.

[jrandom]

Listen to what The Stranger says, he speaks troof.

And watch the GP riders - they don't muck around with their butts. They lead with their head and shoulders, and their butt slides off the seat after the fact where necessary.

In the really tight chicanes where they're chucking the bike on its ear, one side one second the other the next, their butt stays firmly planted but they still manage significant weight transfer with their head and torso. Sometimes they're pretty much looking past the side of their screen rather than across the top, while their arse is still more or less central.

[quallman1234]

I guess im going to have to try this out, well ill be really annoyed if it suddenly all clicks after a year of racing. oh well better late than never eh

[CookMySock]

So what do you do with your inside shoulder? foreward or backward?

uh I'm NOT sure what you mean here. I guess my inside (of the corner) shoulder is more forward than the other.

Personally, I prefer push the inside bar.

1) It's easier to remember in a panic situation. Want to go left - push left.

2) All steering inputs should be with the inside arm only. The outside arm should only be resting there doing no work other than perhaps controlling the throttle. Better dexterity and if you steer with both arms, one will fight the other.

agreed 100%. I don't quite know why I feel so comfortable about the opposite-bar-pull. I am still at a stage in my riding where I can think about it and choose. A few years down the track I think I might not be able to choose.

DB

[Mikkel]

Counter steering is MAGIC!
If you displease the spirits it will not work when you need it most.
There is nothing to understand, counter steering just happens - if you make sure to sacrifice a goat every now and again.

[Badjelly]

Personally, I prefer push the inside bar. 2 reasons.

1) It's easier to remember in a panic situation. Want to go left - push left.

2) All steering inputs should be with the inside arm only. The outside arm should only be resting there doing no work other than perhaps controlling the throttle. Better dexterity and if you steer with both arms, one will fight the other.

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, as such, because I've never thought about the inside arm/outside arm issue. But your reasons sound pretty weak. One arm fighting the other? I don't believe it.

[Badjelly]

I don't quite know why I feel so comfortable about the opposite-bar-pull. I am still at a stage in my riding where I can think about it and choose. A few years down the track I think I might not be able to choose.

Mate, I'm a long way down the track! But even an old fart like me can think about his riding and try to improve it. I've been working on moving my upper body into the bends more recently, as I found I was tending to lean outwards. And I'm sure I could work on inside arm push vs outside arm pull (have I got that right?) if I could see any reason to.

[The Stranger:Me]

Not that I'm disagreeing with you, as such, because I've never thought about the inside arm/outside arm issue. But your reasons sound pretty weak. One arm fighting the other? I don't believe it.

Do you always offer opinions on things you have never experienced?
How is this at all helpful to anyone?
Why not approach things with an open mind, maybe you could learn something?

It should be noted that in many of these things there are no absolutes - it's what works for you that matters.
Hence, I prefixed my reply with the word "personally" as in it is my opinion and works for me.

However, as a principal, I would strongly recommend you keep an open mind and try a thing before offering a contrary opinion.


Had a guy at RRRS on Sunday. He was making a bit of a ham of a given exercise.
I had a word with him and asked him to drum on both levers with his fingers during the exercise, he was reluctant, but in the end did.
He repeated the exercise significantly better thereafter.
He asked me what the hell just happened?
I suspected his arms were tense, drumming his fingers forced them to relax and he was able to complete the exercise well.

Keep an open mind and you never know what you may learn.

[The Stranger:Me]

uh I'm sure what you mean here. I guess my inside (of the corner) shoulder is more forward than the other.

That answers the question just fine.
So how about next time you are out, think about this.
Try a series of corners with your shoulder dropped forward, then try them again with it dropped back then come back and let us know if you notice any difference.

I know which I prefer, however, we are all individuals and what suits me on my bike/s may not suit you on yours.

But I will be surprised if you don't notice a difference.

[Badjelly]

Do you always offer opinions on things you have never experienced? How is this at all helpful to anyone? Why not approach things with an open mind, maybe you could learn something?

Er, learning something is exactly the point of my questioning you. Read what I said again if you want. I'm not dismissing the idea that steering with the inside arm only is a good thing, but the reasons you gave sounded pretty weak to me. So I said so. It causes your arms to fight? Well, that might be true for someone who hasn't mastered eating with a knife and fork, or steering a car with both hands on the wheel (quite a few people, apparently), or coordinating left hand and left foot to change gear.

So your reason is, "It just seems to work better that way". OK, I'll run with that and give it a go myself. I'll try to be open-minded but not so much my brains fall out.

[The Stranger:Me]

Er, learning something is exactly the point of my questioning you. Read what I said again if you want. I'm not dismissing the idea that steering with the inside arm only is a good thing, but the reasons you gave sounded pretty weak to me. So I said so. It causes your arms to fight? Well, that might be true for someone who hasn't mastered eating with a knife and fork, or steering a car with both hands on the wheel (quite a few people, apparently), or coordinating left hand and left foot to change gear.

Hmm, really looks like you have an open mind there.
I look forward to your post after you have tried it.
I have no doubt the outcome will match your preconception. Too bad, you may have learnt something.

So your reason is, "It just seems to work better that way". OK, I'll run with that and give it a go myself. I'll try to be open-minded but not so much my brains fall out.

You seem to be having trouble with reading and comprehension as well.
I set out my reasons.
Remember - one hand fighting the other and dexterity.

[Badjelly]

Remember - one hand fighting the other and dexterity.

Right oh.

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[avgas]

countersteering is when you meant to go around the corner but you looked the wrong way and fell off.
Your steer the wrong way and fall off the road. Counter to what you wish to achieve in a corner.
That is why you push the left bar to go left(hand side) or right to go right(hand side). Of course counter-steering is replaced by the ball-basher if you get enough angle into the steering to lift the back of the bike up.
The ultimate is the bar-leap, where you have enough speed to lift the back of the bike and then you pass the bike mid-corner (usually above the bars) and slide down the bank next to the corner with the bike in hot pursuit.
Now ask something else ridiculous like "What is GOD?"

[Mikkel]

"What is GOD?"

"Why is GOD?" is a better question IMHO.