Countersteering, huh?

[avgas]

Cheers boss!

Thanks to all of the above, it really helped me understand it a lot clearer!

Ok im only going to say this once.
Put both of your arms out infront of you,
If you tilt you head to the left (not TURN, TILT!) this is you leaning closer to the road in a corner.......now look at your hands - voila your left hand is pushed out further than the right.........now do the same TILTING your head to the right.
MAGIC!!!!

[DEATH_INC.]

2) All steering inputs should be with the inside arm only. The outside arm should only be resting there doing no work other than perhaps controlling the throttle. Better dexterity and if you steer with both arms, one will fight the other.

Hmmmm I use both arms, when ya gotta change direction quick you can't beat it.
Here's the correct body positioning....

[CookMySock]

Here's the correct body positioning....

gawd, hez had his arms lengthened.. no fair !!

DB

[Mikkel]

Here's the correct body positioning....

Need to get myself a set of elbow sliders it seems!

[Badjelly]

Hmm, really looks like you have an open mind there. I look forward to your post after you have tried it.

OK, so on the ride to work this morning I tried to analyse whether I was initiating turns by pushing with my inside arm or pulling with my outside arm, and also tried to vary my style and see what difference it made. (My morning ride is quite varied, though it involves no speed limits above 50 km/h. And what a lovely day it is in south Wellington!) My conclusion is that it depends on how much weight I'm putting on the bars. Downhill there's a fair bit of weight on the bars, so pushing with the inside arm is natural. On the flat, even at 50 km/h, or a little more, the wind drag pulls me back and it's natural to also pull back a bit on the outside bar. And under acceleration the awesome power of the mighty Scorpio means that the front wheel is off the ground so it's moot.

I honestly can't see that sharing the work between the inside and outside arms leads to any problems. I would say that concentrating on pushing with the inside arm encourages you to lean forward to put more weight on the bars, which is generally a good thing.

I have no doubt the outcome will match your preconception.

Yeah, whatever.

[Ixion]

Ok im only going to say this once.
Put both of your arms out infront of you,
If you tilt you head to the left (not TURN, TILT!) this is you leaning closer to the road in a corner.......now look at your hands - voila your left hand is pushed out further than the right.........now do the same TILTING your head to the right.
MAGIC!!!!

No it doesn't. I just tried it. Tilting the head doesn't move my hands at all. To do that I have to twist my shoulder.

[Ixion]

Er, learning something is exactly the point of my questioning you. Read what I said again if you want. I'm not dismissing the idea that steering with the inside arm only is a good thing, but the reasons you gave sounded pretty weak to me. So I said so. It causes your arms to fight? Well, that might be true for someone who hasn't mastered eating with a knife and fork, or steering a car with both hands on the wheel (quite a few people, apparently), or coordinating left hand and left foot to change gear.

So your reason is, "It just seems to work better that way". OK, I'll run with that and give it a go myself. I'll try to be open-minded but not so much my brains fall out.

I push or pull, depending on.

I imagine most older riders do. Those who were riding before indicators. Try pushing on the inside bar, when your hand isn't on the bar cos it's signalling the turn. Don't work.

You had to turn by pushing or pulling on the bar that you were holding (the one with the arm that wasn't signalling). Right hand turn , pull left hand bar. Left hand turn pull right hand bar. Stopping, depends on whether you only used the right hand for the stop signal. Technically a left hand stop signal was not legal.

Not signalling, push appropriate bar.

I still pull or push depending on what's most convenient. Or even pull AND push in emergencies. I don't think it causes any problems.

In reality , you are normally not actually pushing , or pulling. You are twisting your shoulder/upper body slightly. So I very much doubt that would be any "left ahnd fighting right hand" issues.

[Badjelly]

No it doesn't. I just tried it. Tilting the head doesn't move my hands at all. To do that I have to twist my shoulder.

Yeah, same here, but I didn't want to say so, otherwise I'd be accused of being close-minded

[Badjelly]

I imagine most older riders do. Those who were riding before indicators. Try pushing on the inside bar, when your hand isn't on the bar cos it's signalling the turn. Don't work.

And then there were the times when you were signalling a left turn with your left arm and holding a cell phone to your ear with the right arm

[Mikkel]

No it doesn't. I just tried it. Tilting the head doesn't move my hands at all. To do that I have to twist my shoulder.

Disbeliver? BURN THE HERETIC!!! The ancestral spirits of counter-steering will feast upon your soul!

[wharfy]

Ok im only going to say this once.
Put both of your arms out infront of you,
If you tilt you head to the left (not TURN, TILT!) this is you leaning closer to the road in a corner.......now look at your hands - voila your left hand is pushed out further than the right.........now do the same TILTING your head to the right.
MAGIC!!!!

All that happens is I hear a clicking sound in my neck, my hands don't move at all ?

[CookMySock]

Try a series of corners with your shoulder dropped forward, then try them again with it dropped back then come back and let us know if you notice any difference.

ALRIGHTEEE THEN!!! I went for a quick hoon to town and back and tried it.

Uh, then I forgot what I was supposed to be trying and just had a quick hoon! Sorry!

BUT, I discovered something ELSE!! Insane ay, hehe.

If I sit too far forward on the seat my shoulders are ABOVE the bars, and I have little or no leverage on them, leading to "oh shit" moments.

If I sit further back I can actually PUSH on the bars rather than just "wish" them to move. The thrills never end!!

NOW I have one shoulder further forwardish than the other - the side I am pushing on is further forward.

I think.

DB

[terbang]

It does indeed turn the wheel to the right and causes the bike to roll around the curve of the tyre profile - to the left. This makes the bike lean to the left and makes the bike attempt to travel in a circle whose circumference depends on the angle of lean and the velocity at which you are traveling.

Some people will be along soon to confuse you and attempt to discourage you from believing in the magic of counter steering.

Bingo.......