Police lose Duff case

[Pedrostt500]

Yup nobody said life would be easy, I like the idea of karma, what you get back is what you put out.
I've done a number of different jobs over the years, all of them have had parts to the job that have been dificult or unpleasant, some worse than others.
But I think it comes back to Karma, you make some one elses life misserable for kicks, then some where down the track some one else will make your life misserable, for their kicks.
There seems to have been a change in attitude by the police back when the police and the MOT merged, I would like to see the two departments seperated again, though I geuss this will not happen.
My attitude to being pulled over is, treat the officer with some respect, if ya act like a dickhead then so will they, some times the most disarming thing you can do is smile.
always keep ya WOF and REG up to date, and keep on top of the obvious stuff like blowen bulbs, and bald tyres, a vechicle that looks like a bucket of shit has more chances of being repeatedly pulled over at random than one that doesnt.
Cops have their fishing grounds, normaly in areas of high traffic flows, more chances of filling their quotas, and you either know or will get to know where most of these places will be in your local area, so dont drive / ride like a Dick Head through these areas.

[davereid]

Can we get this back on topic before it gets shoved into "pointless drivel" ?

I'm seriously interested in finding out what CAN and what CAN'T be legally done during a traffic stop.

To refresh...

1. Can a cop make you wait in a queue for WOF or Rego checks for as long as it takes ?

2. If you have current rego/licence/WOF can a cop make you wait while he jacks the car up to check stuff he isn't qualified to ave an opinion on anyway ?

3. Can a cop open boot/bonnet etc without your permission ?

If so under what section of the law ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Max Preload]

Yeh we are all such cunts eh. Heres what I had one day at work last week.

BLAH BLAH etc.

I chose to do the job and could quit at anytime, so expect no sympathy but I'm just curious Awful and Paesea what your average day comprises of?

Well, let's see. For a work day that would be:

1000 - Wake naturally without being startled out of my skin by a shrill alarm.
1030 - Consider the benefits of getting out of bed, conclude they're insufficient to warrant such drastic action.
1100 - Finally emerge from the scratcher and brunch on bacon, eggs & hash browns.
1115 - Consider doing some work - decide against it.
1130 - Feeling guilty, I reconsider doing some work - fortunately common sense prevails and I redismiss the idea.
1145 - Go back to bed for a power nap.
1300 - Re-awaken.
1400 - Leave the sanctuary of a nice warm duvet to indulge in a rigourous process of invoicing customers.
1500 - Ponder the rich tapestry of life and what to have for dinner.
1615 - Thank my lucky stars I paid attention at school and had choices beyond becoming a Policeman.
1630 - Catch burglar breaking into neighbours house. Call the Police who say "We'd like to help you, we really would but we're very busy down here. *click* *click* *click* King me!"
1730 - Release burglar and prepare and consume dinner, planning to start with the consumption of caviar from the bum cheek of a supermodel.
1735 - Police knock on my front door with the same burglar in tow, complaining about my detention of him being unlawful.
2000 - Released from custody on Police bail to appear in the district court.
2030 - Feel guilty about not having done any work today.
2031 - Send out some more invoices and feel much better.
2145 - Wonder if I'll do any work tomorrow and then shower and go to bed.

[Ixion]

Can we get this back on topic before it gets shoved into "pointless drivel" ?

I'm seriously interested in finding out what CAN and what CAN'T be legally done during a traffic stop.

To refresh...

1. Can a cop make you wait in a queue for WOF or Rego checks for as long as it takes ?

2. If you have current rego/licence/WOF can a cop make you wait while he jacks the car up to check stuff he isn't qualified to ave an opinion on anyway ?

3. Can a cop open boot/bonnet etc without your permission ?

If so under what section of the law ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On my understanding (IANAL, but even they are not of a common mind)

1. Yes, they can stop you, and if there is a queue you may need to wait. But only for a "reasonable time" . What "reasonable" is is not defined, but I imagine one could point to the 15 minutes allowed for identity checking and say "the law says that's reasonable". But, IMHO, there is nothing to stop you doing a U turn and going the other way if you are tired of waiting (the cops may of course wonder about that and come after you and stop you, but at least it sort of gets you to the front of the queue). They have not actually stopped YOU, you have just stopped because there is a traffic stoppage. So the "remaining stopped" stuff, in my submission, is not relevant

2. Yes, if they have reasonable grounds for thinking the vehicle may be modified or unsafe. Note the rules is different for trucks and buses and such.

3. No, not unless there is something to invoke a more serious act (eg the shotgun on the back seat).

A lot of this stuff is not in statute law, it is the common law. Common law says noone may be detained whilst proceeding about his lawful occassions except as explicitly allowed by law. So you can only be detained against your will (or searched etc) when a statute expressly allows it.

Land Transport Act 1998 and its associated regs and Rules is the mian legislation relating to traffic matters.

[Skyryder]

That would require there to be some reasonable grounds to suppose that an aresstable offence had been committed. (eg , the shotgun on the back seat mentioned by someone else).

NZ law knows nothing of any right of arbitrary detention by the police , which is what your argument would require.

Yes that is correct. My wording of 'involvement by another party' was perhaps not as clear as it could be. I've had a quick gander at some other acts and there is no requirment that I can find where the public are obliged to remain, after correctly identifying themselves. It would appear that Duff knew this and may have been the reason the police dropped the charge of assault in as much that the officer pursing Duff while he was about his (1)lawfull buisness and (2) the less publicity that the public know on this the better.
Seems like Duff is going make that hard.





Skyryder

[Indoo]

1. . But, IMHO, there is nothing to stop you doing a U turn and going the other way if you are tired of waiting (the cops may of course wonder about that and come after you and stop you, but at least it sort of gets you to the front of the queue).

I think thats pretty much spot on, your not required to stop until you are signaled to do so, ie when you reach the front of the queue and the cop puts his hand up for you to stop. If there is a large queue its fairly unreasonable to expect people to stop and wait at inconvenience to them on the random chance that they might have an expired wof or rego, not exactly a public relations plus story.

3. No, not unless there is something to invoke a more serious act (eg the shotgun on the back seat).
.

Bonnet is a bit of a different story to boot, given that its necessary to open it to check the vin etc and any certs. Boot can only be checked though under a stat search or pursuant to arrest in some cases.

[tzrmike]

Maybe next we get pulled over by Mr Plod, we should take out OUR notepad, and take down everything HE says...I wonder how he'd enjoy that?

[theblacksmith]

Good idea tzrmike! Notepad in car and truck ready.

[scumdog]

Maybe next we get pulled over by Mr Plod, we should take out OUR notepad, and take down everything HE says...I wonder how he'd enjoy that?

Knock your socks off sunshine - they wouldn't give a fat rats arse.

Of course it would be a tad harsh on those that get pulled over and can't write!!!

[SPman]

A lot of people seem to forget that most cops are dealing with the "less savoury" sectors of the populace, day in, day out. Even to the most well balanced, that is going to have a deletorious affect,to the extent that, if having an off day, they are going to bite some innocent persons head off for the most trivial of reasons, or even, no reason at all! Shouldn't happen, of course, but it does. Human nature, and, having seen some of the crap that goes on on the roads, at times, I can't blame them! You could probably lump 80% of all police in that category.
When it happens to us, we get, understandably, rather pissed off! Suddenly, all police are tarred with the same brush - the one that should be used to tar and feather the other section of arrogant, egomaniacal,arseholes, who seem to use the police as their own little power trip over the public, one which seems to often extend right to the top. - eg - the Ombudsmans report into the police attempted procurement of tasers...which concluded that - "

Given that the decision on whether to equip Police with Tasers is an executive one, with no provision for Parliamentary oversight, Cabinet approval, or Ministerial sign off, I consider that there is a particularly strong public interest in the accountability and transparency of the Commissioner’s decision-making on this issue. In my view the best way to ensure this, is for the process to be as open and transparent as possible. The Police have argued that the proactive release of the Taser summaries on the Police website has already met this public interest consideration. I disagree.
The trial has been run by the Police, the summaries have been written by Police, and the refusal to release any of the “raw data” from the pilot to outside parties has meant that there does not appear to have been any external review of how the Police have conducted the pilot. The production of these reports therefore seems inadequate to address the principle of accountability.
Secondly, I have read the summaries and compared them with the tactical options report accounts. In my view, many of the summaries are extremely brief, and have the effect of “sanitising” the original reports.

These are strong words for an Ombudsman, ie, - she is essentially accusing the police of lying to the public and feeding us shit in order to push through a decision without any public oversight.

People and groups in positions of power, have a duty to act in a responsible manner towards those their actions affect and if it seems that they are not, should be called to task - and that includes the police.

and the government, multi nationals, ginga cops,etc, etc,etc........

[scumdog]

Secondly, I have read the summaries and compared them with the tactical options report accounts. In my view, many of the summaries are extremely brief, and have the effect of “sanitising” the original reports. [/INDENT]These are strong words for an Ombudsman, ie, - she is essentially accusing the police of lying to the public and feeding us shit in order to push through a decision without any public oversight.

People and groups in positions of power, have a duty to act in a responsible manner towards those their actions affect and if it seems that they are not, should be called to task - and that includes the police.

and the government, multi nationals, ginga cops,etc, etc,etc........

Ah well, back to just pepper-spray or a Glock eh?

Bad luck for the next golfclub wielding fruit-loop eh!

[davereid]

Don't waste your time on the fruit-loops.

Get that Bushmaster out, and go looking for the cunts who blew away a 30 year-old father of three who was just trying to run his shop.

Given that just down the road there was another armed hold up about the same time, shop keepers should be ENCOURAGED not BANNED from having their own bushmaster behind the counter.

Especially if the cops take 45 minutes to get to the scene, and won't let the ambo in till they clear the scene.

I'm not blaming the cops.

Joe Average cop is not armed or trained to deal with this, and he deserves to go home to his family too. And so does the Ambo crew !

It takes time to organise the AOS. But in the gap, its about time we allowed the good guys to shoot back.

[Renegade]

Can we get this back on topic before it gets shoved into "pointless drivel" ?

I'm seriously interested in finding out what CAN and what CAN'T be legally done during a traffic stop.

To refresh...

1. Can a cop make you wait in a queue for WOF or Rego checks for as long as it takes ?

2. If you have current rego/licence/WOF can a cop make you wait while he jacks the car up to check stuff he isn't qualified to ave an opinion on anyway ?

3. Can a cop open boot/bonnet etc without your permission ?

If so under what section of the law ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I beleive its section 113 of the land transport act, to inspect, test and examine the vehicle, i.e brakes and vehicle equipment such as exhuasts and suspension, documents i.e wof/reg/road users etc.

so to answer your question, yip you gotta stay, as for being qualified its think its pretty obvious to most when a car has cut springs or a poorly mounted after market exhaust draggin down the road.

I have had a run in with said female officer in the duff case and confirm she got what was coming to her and it was well over due.

[marty]

I'm sure I posted this last night, but it's not here, so I'll do it again.

A few years ago I had some dealings with a truckie, namely 3 speeding tickets in 3 days (0500am, SH1 Cambridge). Over 120km/h each time. (fastest 135k on 3rd day).

On this 3rd occasion, he stopped in the Mobil @ Karapiro, which has a large truck-stopping area. He wasn't very happy funnily enough, and when I stepped up onto the step to give him his ticket, he wound his window up, then started to drive off, while I was standing on the step.

I jumped off - we were doing about 10km/h. I stumbled, and as the truck was turning reasonably sharp, the 40' container trailer that was following the unit, was tracking across towards me. I fell into the back wheels of the truck, bounced off, landed on my arse, then scrambled away on all fours to avoid being run over. The truck drove off south, I got into my patrol car and began following him.

I was by myself, nearest back-up in Tokoroa or Tauranga.

What should my next action be?

(I made some on-the-spot decisions that in hindsight may or may not have been the best, would be interested to know what other people would do.)

[SixPackBack]

I'm sure I posted this last night, but it's not here, so I'll do it again.

A few years ago I had some dealings with a truckie, namely 3 speeding tickets in 3 days (0500am, SH1 Cambridge). Over 120km/h each time. (fastest 135k on 3rd day).

On this 3rd occasion, he stopped in the Mobil @ Karapiro, which has a large truck-stopping area. He wasn't very happy funnily enough, and when I stepped up onto the step to give him his ticket, he wound his window up, then started to drive off, while I was standing on the step.

I jumped off - we were doing about 10km/h. I stumbled, and as the truck was turning reasonably sharp, the 40' container trailer that was following the unit, was tracking across towards me. I fell into the back wheels of the truck, bounced off, landed on my arse, then scrambled away on all fours to avoid being run over. The truck drove off south, I got into my patrol car and began following him.

I was by myself, nearest back-up in Tokoroa or Tauranga.

What should my next action be?

(I made some on-the-spot decisions that in hindsight may or may not have been the best, would be interested to know what other people would do.)

Pop a cap in has ass