Police lose Duff case

[marty]

come on spb - if what i have said previously is a 'shocker', what should i have done in this case?

i didn't have a gun or a tazer. pepper spray and baton only.

[MIXONE]

marty what I would have done would be radio ahead to the next base he was heading for and called up assistance then followed at a reasonable distance until arrival of the calvary.It probable would have added a bit of excitement and a change from the normal domestics etc.

[SixPackBack]

come on spb - if what i have said previously is a 'shocker', what should i have done in this case?

i didn't have a gun or a tazer. pepper spray and baton only.

Dunno marty. Call for back-up, stop the cunt and beat him senseless.

What did you do?

[Ixion]

Well, you knew his name, and the vehicle rego. Wouldn't have been hard to locate the next day. And even his daily route. No real need for heroics chasing him. He'd not likely be any danger to anyone else, and obviously no longer any danger to you. So, follow up at leisure. Charge? Careless driving? Seems pretty careless taking off when someone's standing on the vehicle. And a word with his employer maybe?

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[scumdog]

No real need for heroics chasing him. He'd not likely be any danger to anyone else, and obviously no longer any danger to you.
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The bigie is: You KNOW this how?

After all, it may be he was on something, he was mentally unstable or whatever, look at the Jap guy in tonights news.

[Ixion]

Well given that
(a) Mr Marty had stopped him three days in a row, same time same place, so he was clearly driving a regular route
(b) Drivers of rigs like that are hardly going to fade in the night. Either he's employed by a trucking firm , or he's a contract owner driver. Either way the business name will be plastered over the truck.
(c) Mr Marty had just given him a ticket and presumably spent about 10 minutes talking to him, without any concerns about "being on something"
(d) Mr Marty had observed him three days running and stopped him, for speeding. Nothing else.

Somehow, don't think he'd be hard to track down. This wasn't boi-racer in the 20 year old Celica registered ot a non existent address.

[marty]

ixion's got it. i charged him with reckless, i posted him the speeding ticket (it was paid no complaints)

he defended it, i got hammered for half a day by his lawyer - 'so you're saying my client was reckless and could have killed you and you just let him go?'

no i wasn't saying that - i said that he was reckless as to whether i was injured or not. the offence finished there. i didn't re-stop him as he was obviously not very happy with me, and i didn't want to have to pepper spray him just to show who had the biggest dick. not to mention he had already intimated that if i tried to stop him again, that he would simply reverse over my patrol car, even if i was in it.

he was arrested by tauranga police on arrival at his base. i had already talked to his boss (who had contacted me the day before in relation to the 2nd stop and asked me to advise him if any of his trucks was stopped again).

anyway, he got off the reckless - judge basically told me to htfu, and that it was a hazard of the job.

oh well, win some lose some. i was getting paid the whole time. quota was down a bit for that day, but i made up for the next day writing out 40 tickets to drivers of cars doing 111-120km/h (not really, but it would be nice if this had a happy ending...... )

i think i went and celebrated with a latte and donuts at the Big Cow

[davereid]

...when I stepped up onto the step to give him his ticket, he wound his window up, then started to drive off, while I was standing on the step....

I jumped off - we were doing about 10km/h. I stumbled, and as the truck was turning reasonably sharp, the 40' container trailer that was following the unit, was tracking across towards me. I fell into the back wheels of the truck, bounced off, landed on my arse, then scrambled away on all fours to avoid being run over....

Sounds like attempted murder to me.

If a trucky or car driver deliberately tries to kill you, its attempted murder.

IMHO Buggar all difference between driving your car deliberately into a crowd of teenagers, or a group of cyclists to killing them with a knife or firearm.

[swbarnett]

Sounds like attempted murder to me.

If a trucky or car driver deliberately tries to kill you, its attempted murder.

IMHO Buggar all difference between driving your car deliberately into a crowd of teenagers, or a group of cyclists to killing them with a knife or firearm.

If I understand it correctly murder requires intent? From the description of the incident it doesn't sound like the trucky intended to kill marty, he just put him into a dangerous situation and didn't care what happened to him.

[spudchucka]

If I understand it correctly murder requires intent? From the description of the incident it doesn't sound like the trucky intended to kill marty, he just put him into a dangerous situation and didn't care what happened to him.

slightly more complex than just having intent but here's the definition FYI.

Murder defined

Culpable homicide is murder in each of the following cases:

(a) If the offender means to cause the death of the person killed:

(b) If the offender means to cause to the person killed any bodily injury that is known to the offender to be likely to cause death, and is reckless whether death ensues or not:

(c) If the offender means to cause death, or, being so reckless as aforesaid, means to cause such bodily injury as aforesaid to one person, and by accident or mistake kills another person, though he does not mean to hurt the person killed:

(d) If the offender for any unlawful object does an act that he knows to be likely to cause death, and thereby kills any person, though he may have desired that his object should be effected without hurting any one.

[spudchucka]

Especially if the cops take 45 minutes to get to the scene, and won't let the ambo in till they clear the scene.

I think you'll find that it is Ambo policy and not a case of the cops not letting them in. Until the NZ public and politicians accept that our police need to be routinely armed there will always be delays in patrols arriving to scenes like that one.

[davereid]

Until the NZ public and politicians accept that our police need to be routinely armed there will always be delays in patrols arriving to scenes like that one.

It's not just about arming the police.

Normal New Zealanders need to be able to defend themselves too.

I watched the article on the TV last night, filmed in front of the store. A very large, and very unhappy looking security guard was standing there, hopping from foot to foot.

So he should be ! What is he ? A sacrifice to the gods ? Someone to hide a skinny indian behind when the bad guys start shooting ?

There is no reason why given proper training, that guard could not be armed, and no reason why the shopkeeper couldn't either.

I agree its a good idea to arm the police.

But they are always the last to the scene.
The shop owner, the security guard coming to the alarm response, the lone woman in the car park or her own bedroom is always there first.

[imdying]

Until the NZ public and politicians accept that our police need to be routinely armed there will always be delays in patrols arriving to scenes like that one.

It's not a forgone conclusion at this stage. I'd rather see the killing done at the other end of the business, where there's a little more time to apply it with the correct considerations. Electric chair, hanging, hunt them like animals through national parks, whatever. There's always going to be offenders, no reason we need repeat offenders though.

[Fatjim]

I think you'll find that it is Ambo policy and not a case of the cops not letting them in. Until the NZ public and politicians accept that our police need to be routinely armed there will always be delays in patrols arriving to scenes like that one.

I'm for the police being armed, as long as it doesn't see a corresponding softening in the arms laws.

[swbarnett]

I'm for the police being armed, as long as it doesn't see a corresponding softening in the arms laws.

The only problem with arming the police is that this will be matched with a corresponding increase in the number of armed crims.

Or has this already happened and it's the police that are in catch up mode?