Crappy cornering technique

[98tls]

Viva le reb!

And may i add not just any "Rebs",without doubt those "Rebs" have spent years tapping out many a Bob Seager tune such as "roll me away" surrounded by the finest amateur tattoos ever seen in the once confederate states.As i said "legend".Thank god i say,without him the NZ motorcyclist may never have seen such rebels as i came across the other day wearing a supposed WW2 German helmet telling the world he was a follower of the "Wiffen SS" when asked if that was the "Asian unit" he started up the long wheel base thing and left.

[Big Dave]

And may i add not just any "Rebs",without doubt those "Rebs" have spent years tapping out many a Bob Seager tune such as "roll me away" surrounded by the finest amateur tattoos ever seen in the once confederate states.As i said "legend".

I have two pairs. With Harley Logos embossed. Favourite boots ever. Stand close to 6'8" in 'em new. And if i was really 6-8 - I'd still wear 'em.
mwahahahahaahah

[robo555]

Headbanger got it in one

Call me a noob (go on) but to me it just sounds like the guy went too fast into the turn and had a bit of panic, not commiting to the corner.

Call me a noob again (please) but countersteering still doesn't make sense to me I've seen it in a few videos, but I don't think I'd be able to bring myself to try 'turn in the wrong direction' as I head into a corner..

I'm a noob too, and while riding round town and on a bit of a hill, I couldn't commit myself to countersteer either. I just did the whole look where you want to go thing.

Then I found a quiet flat piece of road with moderate corners, going at 70km/h, was going through the corners by shifting body weight (not hanging off, just shifting weight), then after a while I commited myself to push the handle bar, the first two or three corners freaked me out a little, felt like the bike steered by itself (the bike just turned by itself with out me leaning), and I was getting a bit dizzy 'cos my head was no longer align with the horizon (i.e. the body was in line with the bike), so the next few corners I pushed the handle bar, and tilt my head the other way so it remains align with the horizon, and that felt way better.

After that I was able to do the whole road steering using the handle bar.

[discotex]

Bike tips - you stay upright = countersteering. It doesn't matter if you grab the bars with your dick - or what someone wrote on wikipedia

mate it's easy to say that but remember that almost every newbie has to start somewhere and thankfully they're more likely to read Wikipedia's definition before yours.

If a newbie checks out the links I posted and puts it into practice they will be a safer rider.

If they try countersteer by counterleaning in the twisties (instead of bar inputs) they'll increase their odds of a crash (as per the example in the OP's post).

I can however countersteer a motorcycle without touching the handlebars *. That is my point of disagreement.

* - Noobs do not try this. Closed road - professional rider :-)

While that is technically correct (and the Wikipedia article covers that) the important fact is that without bar inputs to countersteer you have a limited ability to turn the bike sharply and quickly which is the end goal.

[discotex]

Gawd, I can't believe I just wrote a 'definition of countersteering' post.

Bloody good to the point one too. Have a

[Ixion]

mate it's easy to say that but remember that almost every newbie has to start somewhere and thankfully they're more likely to read Wikipedia's definition before yours.

If a newbie checks out the links I posted and puts it into practice they will be a safer rider.

If they try countersteer by counterleaning in the twisties (instead of bar inputs) they'll increase their odds of a crash (as per the example in the OP's post).



While that is technically correct (and the Wikipedia article covers that) the important fact is that without bar inputs to countersteer you have a limited ability to turn the bike sharply and quickly which is the end goal.

Only on a sprots bike. There are more bikes in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy.

The ffwwabbitt will turn faster with footpegs than bars. And counterleaning is a most useful skill that may save your skin one day (it hs mine before now) .

[Big Dave]

While that is technically correct

It's also common sense, there-is-no-point-micromanaging-it because everyone has a different riding style correct.

What would be even more technically correct is for noobs and those that don't get it to do the RRRS course. :-)

[discotex]

The ffwwabbitt will turn faster with footpegs than bars. And counterleaning is a most useful skill that may save your skin one day (it hs mine before now) .

Absolutely!

I counterlean my sprotsbike all the time. Especially performing tight carpark manoeuvrings.

You can't watch a MX race or motards without seeing them counterlean all over the show.

Would you say counterleaning is distinct from countersteering and both have their place depending on speed and style of bike?

It's also common sense, there-is-no-point-micromanaging-it because everyone has a different riding style correct.

What would be even more technically correct is for noobs and those that don't get it to do the RRRS course.

I agree. If someone can't do slow speed turns at full lock and they can't flick a bike around in the twisties (no matter the style of bike) then regardless they're doing it all wrong and the RRRS course will sort that out regardless of how you and I use the words to describe the different techniques.

[slofox]

Hmmmmmm "counterlean" huh?....Isn't that what you do at the bar when you're half cut....?

[awayatc]

Don't worry....I will countersteer you away from it mate....

[AlBundy]

No burden old bean - but I could only reiterate what I have already posted and hope it is taken in the intended context.

I'll put in a 'me' context so nobody else says I'm confused.

I either 'push' the bike through the maneuver in a countersteering exercise - or 'pull' it round after me in a conventional off board job.

That is the nub and it is achieved by a concert of actions in either case.

I can however countersteer a motorcycle without touching the handlebars *. That is my point of disagreement.

* - Noobs do not try this. Closed road - professional rider :-)

Countersteering and push and pull, is related to bar use, either using the inside bar or outside bar.
If I were to push the inside bar, it would be similar to pulling on the outside bar and vice versa.

Keith Code has a bike set up where they have a second set of bars on it, that doesn't steer... Without actively weighting the bars, they need a huge area to be able to get a knee down. The theory being, you need the bars to be able to regulate the radius of the turning circle.

The steering the bike does when shifting weight, is just to maintain it's own balance and equilibrium... There is zero way a bike is going to go around a corner as fast without bar pressure applied... Whether it be pushing/pulling the inside bar, or pulling/pushing the outside...

[Big Dave]

Countersteering and push and pull, is related to bar use, either using the inside bar or outside bar.

Amongst other things - sometimes.

I can also do either without touching 'any' handlebars.

[notme]

One of the smartest things I have been taught to do when I am learning any new skill or subject matter (bikes, work, music, whatever) is spend some time finding out what/who/where the reputable sources are and getting hold of the correct information.

n00bs who dig this thread up, take note:

Some of the info in this thread is correct and some is not. Some of the correct information is explained very well and some of the incorrect information is explained very convincingly, and the other combinations as well.

How many posts a person has, their rep, or how well they are able to explain what they think is correct means exactly NOTHING.

The only way to know which information is correct is to get it from reliable sources, unfortunately KB is not one such source unless you have satisfied yourself that a member is posting fact, not opinion.

For reference, here are some sources I would recommend as factual information on all of the stuff discussed thus far (and a buttload more):

1. The RRRS course or similar professional courses
2. Trackdays/race training run by a training organization as opposed to casual KB type days
3. Reference standards like Keith Code's books.
4. Paid tuition from a professional

Remember, you are playing with your life here......would you happily trust your life or future quality of life (not to mention loved ones feelings and emotions) to the good 'ol "what some guy said on the net" ?

[Big Dave]

It's a discussion (and fun to debate with random) forum. It ain't a text book.

[Headbanger]

Just about every kid and his dog learned to counter-steer the day their Dad removed the trainer wheels off their bicycle.

Those that didn't done a lot of walking.