Crappy cornering technique

[Ixion]

Sometimes when I am coasting down Stuart street, I will let go of the bars and sit up and let gravity take over...

I find it very difficult to just lean to steer the bike, including applying pressure on the pegs etc... actually its just about non existant...

I ride a a variety of bikes. Some respond well to non-bar inputs , some less well. Ditto for bar inputs.

The ffwwabbitt , I seldom use bar input at all. It changes direction quickly and easily with peg and tank pressure . And doesn't really like countersteering with bar input. Bar input helps, both to generate the cornering process and to control it. But the quickest easiest cornering is by foot and knee.

The SV1000 on the other hand is the reverse. Weighting pegs and tank pressure doesn't do much . A bit, as an adjunct to bar input. But I have to push it through the corners with the bars.

BMW is like the ffwwabbitt. Not quite so pronounced but easy to steer without bars. So it's not weight.

Virago is also not a counter steering bike. I suspect cruisers aren't generally.

The arzhole is needs countersteering with the bars. Weight transfer helps but without bar input its not going anywhere.

Here, I'm talking about steering at maybe 50 to 120 kph. And interestingly, thinking about it, I have a suspicion it reverses at very low speeds. At walking speed the BMW needs a LOT of bar input to control a full lock turn. So does ffwwabbitt. Whereas the SV needs deliberate weight transfer for low speed manoeuvres.

Which is the point I've been trying to make all along. It varies a LOT from bike to bike.

One of the great difficulties in discussing any topic like this, is that invariably the Motogp crowd come roaring out crying "I'm a racer and we do blah". With a fairly explicit declaration that whatever doesn't conform to road racing practice is invalid.

[Horse]

Virago is also not a counter steering bike. I suspect cruisers aren't generally.

Both my current bike (at the big end of the cruiser spectrum) and my previous (Hyosung GV250, so at the lighter end) respond very positively to counter-steering at highway speeds.

Slow speed maneuvers are of course an entirely different kettle of fish.

[AlBundy]

The ffwwabbitt.....

WTF is that?

[moT]

Was heading to Auks in the cage last Saturday arvo - round about the drag track at Meremere, when a bike of a certain American make came roaring through the lanes, weaving through the traffic and then proceeded into the next right hander.....he was in the righthand lane.....watched him try to lean through the corner but he was leaning OUT of the corner, not into it....sort of pushing the bike down towards the road but leaning the other way......well he totally lost it, couldn't get round, ended up hitting the anchors, crossing, without control, into the left hand lane and generally buggering up his impression ratio....lucky for him the left lane was clear where he was so no grief ensued......
Anyway, he is not the first rider I have seen try to corner like that....kinda looking like a dirt tracker cept no foot down....anyone else see this happening? Makes you wonder if the licence came out of a weetbix packet........or what...

no thats the right way to corner.. i do it all the time when im racing so do the moto gp riders!!

[Big Dave]

Virago is also not a counter steering bike. I suspect cruisers aren't generally.

I have a bike with a 250 rear section at the moment - and a sportsbike front end. Whole new ball game.

[discotex]

I have a bike with a 250 rear section at the moment - and a sportsbike front end. Whole new ball game.

Should put knobblies and front wheel drive on it to change it up a bit.

[svr]

I ride a a variety of bikes. Some respond well to non-bar inputs , some less well. Ditto for bar inputs.

The ffwwabbitt , I seldom use bar input at all. It changes direction quickly and easily with peg and tank pressure . And doesn't really like countersteering with bar input. Bar input helps, both to generate the cornering process and to control it. But the quickest easiest cornering is by foot and knee.

Which is the point I've been trying to make all along. It varies a LOT from bike to bike.

One of the great difficulties in discussing any topic like this, is that invariably the Motogp crowd come roaring out crying "I'm a racer and we do blah". With a fairly explicit declaration that whatever doesn't conform to road racing practice is invalid.

My understanding is that above very low speeds its impossible to initiate a reasonably quick change of direction without countersteering.
I think the most important factors creating differences between bikes' handling are: Tire width, handlebar width, and amount of weight on front wheel (weight distribution) and front suspension quality. Rake, trail, offests etc. are always touted but are down the list somewhere.
Having done both lots of racing and lots of road riding I think you make a fair point - but it's important to understand what your motorcycle is capable of, which is what the track environment will help you learn. Most crashes or near misses that I've seen (too many) are caused by riders wrongly believing they're going too fast and `bailing'.

[dipshit]

I ride a a variety of bikes. Some respond well to non-bar inputs , some less well. Ditto for bar inputs.

All you are experiencing is that some bikes have lighter steering than others. You are still making inputs through the bars whether you are aware of it or not.

Unless you are cornering with your hands off both grips.???

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

All you are experiencing is that some bikes have lighter steering than others. You are still making inputs through the bars whether you are aware of it or not.

I would agree with that...

Unless you are cornering with your hands off both grips.???

Yup and as I said above when I do it is very difficult and just about non existent

[AlBundy]

I'm still waiting for The Stranger to say something constructive...

He's very much like a manager. He'll be around but say nothing, then he'll say something that isn't of particular note, or constructive to the subject and just stir up the yokels, then carry on on his merry way....

What concerns me, is he's a mentor and has no opinion on the subject... Anyone else, I'd not have given a hoot about...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

[Ixion]

All you are experiencing is that some bikes have lighter steering than others. You are still making inputs through the bars whether you are aware of it or not.

Unless you are cornering with your hands off both grips.???

yep done that.

Go find a gravel road, or some reasonably slippery clay. Now, you will find that on a suitable bike you can steer the bike even if the front wheel is sliding against the turn (and can hardly therefore be countersteering). Be aware of course that you will probably fall off, because of that sliding wheel, but the point is that you CAN steer a bike without bar input (the steering will reflect through the bars).

Do not do it with an SV1000. I own one and it cannot be steered without bar input. I own other bikes where that statement is not true.

The biking world does not end with sprots bikes , though its devilish hard to convince sprotsbikers of that.

[AlBundy]

I tell you what... I'll do some playing on my trip back home tomorrow on the pseudo motard and let you know my findings....

[Ixion]

Actually, I have thought of a cogent argument that should be right up sprotsbikers' alleys.

It is possible to steer a bike with the front wheel off the ground.

Old school two stroke riders will certainly have experienced coming out of a corner and having the front wheel lift as the bike hits power band. It is still possible to complete the corner even though the front wheel is not touching the ground and thus cannot possibly be doing any steering.

The same thing can be experienced in a wheel stand.

[AlBundy]

Actually, I have thought of a cogent argument that should be right up sprotsbikers' alleys.

It is possible to steer a bike with the front wheel off the ground.

Old school two stroke riders will certainly have experienced coming out of a corner and having the front wheel lift as the bike hits power band. It is still possible to complete the corner even though the front wheel is not touching the ground and thus cannot possibly be doing any steering.

The same thing can be experienced in a wheel stand.

And why would that be reserved to two strokes?

Argue away, it doesn't take away from what BD said and the debate that started from it...

[98tls]

Actually, I have thought of a cogent argument that should be right up sprotsbikers' alleys.

It is possible to steer a bike with the front wheel off the ground.

Old school two stroke riders will certainly have experienced coming out of a corner and having the front wheel lift as the bike hits power band. It is still possible to complete the corner even though the front wheel is not touching the ground and thus cannot possibly be doing any steering.

The same thing can be experienced in a wheel stand.

Have ridden the Waitaki bridge start to finish on one wheel (yea i know its blah blah ) at speed and a form of steering was required to stay in the correct lane,obviously theres only one way to do it,as you accelerate out of a corner methinks on a track theoretically yes as its wide enough depending on at what stage you nail it,something like that anyway.