Te Kuiti cop: taking him 2 court

[nodrog:Me]

Gawd wheres my fucken cluestick.. I haven't seen anyone fall for that trick for 25 years!

If he instructs YOU to pull over, then do so and let the group splinter and continue ahead of you - he either sticks with you or with the remainder of the group - his choice. You stop on the side of the road, watch cop drive off into the distance, shrug shoulders, do U turn, and fuck off. Key is, to get the group split up pronto and force him to stop with one rider only - everyone else either rides on or stops, waits 15 seconds, U turns and (sorry officer, I thought you were asking the other fella to stop.. I had earplugs in.. blah di blah.. didn't realise you were signalling me. I DID stop!! but the officer drove straight past!)

Oldrider said it best - the cops are just another risk to be managed on the road - no different from any other sort of risk. What AMAZES me, is the amount of abuse I receive on KB for talking about it. Are we a community of motorcyclists standing up for ourselves or not? coz it doesn't look like it.

Steve

why fuck around and run away when we havnt done anything wrong? we wernt speeding (well not when the cop saw us), all he wanted to tell was that somebody had *555'd us and we better have a chat about our bikes and shit until they drive past so it looks like he is doing his job.

theres is no point being a fuckwit and trying to do a runner for some meaningless shit like doing 102kph, or failing to indicate.

be polite to them and you may be surprised how many of them remember you, and nicely look the other way when they see you doing somthing not completely stupid.

believe it or not some of them are actually human.

im actually tempted to join the police force just so i can pull you over and witness one of your great displays of evasion.

[CookMySock]

why fuck around and run away when we havnt done anything wrong? we wernt speeding (well not when the cop saw us), all he wanted to tell was that somebody had *555'd us and we better have a chat about our bikes and shit until they drive past so it looks like he is doing his job.

theres is no point being a fuckwit and trying to do a runner for some meaningless shit like doing 102kph, or failing to indicate.

I wasn't advising that you do that in this case - I was just stunned you would fall for such a trick. I don't run from the cops, I just make it inconvenient, impossible, or at the very least, infeasible for them.

I didn't say to do a runner - thats dangerous and illegal. I said to stop when he tells you to, and watch him drive off into the distance following the rest of the group. At this point you do NOT have to remain stopped, AND you can ride wherever you choose - its not against the law, so ride back the way you came from. If the group buggers off legally in all directions he gets to stop one of you, not all of you.

If you are happy to sit there and make the cops "look like they are doing their job" then go for it. I'm not, and if they gave me that bs I would laugh at them and ride off. If you think about it, I'll bet you are not happy with them doing this either.

The last time I got stopped I just paid it - I ran smack straight into his radar - no getting outa that one, and for 119k and 120bux who cares. The $400 one I wiggled out of though.. again..

edit: Yeah its fair to start some sort of rapport with them, and I have a couple of cops that remember me.

Steve

[MarkH]

Never do anything that will make the cop realise you are going to defend the ticket.

What is the theory behind this one?

This should be obvious - you want him to write the ticket then go on to forget all about it. A few weeks later he finds out that you are contesting it in court and he is fuzzy on the details.

Contrast with: He writes you a ticket and you tell him you will contest it in court, he makes extensive notes on EXACTLY what happened and polishes his story. A few weeks later he finds out that you are contesting it in court, he remembers what happened well, re-reads his notes and appears in court confident and with all the answers required to assure that you are convicted.

Which situation would you prefer?

[Dooly]

I reckon everyone off KB should join the Police force and get onto Highway patrol, so that with our numbers we can take over, and in that scenario no biker will every be pulled over.
End result, we're all happy.

Cept the quota giver outta fullas.

[pete376403]

Maybe back in the eighties...

Yeah, both my bikes were built (or designed) in the 80's. Mea Culpa.

(is this modern dirt bikes too? Would really f*ck with your distance calculations if you spend time wheelspinning in mud...)

[CookMySock]

This should be obvious - you want him to write the ticket then go on to forget all about it. A few weeks later he finds out that you are contesting it in court and he is fuzzy on the details.

Contrast with: He writes you a ticket and you tell him you will contest it in court, he makes extensive notes on EXACTLY what happened and polishes his story. A few weeks later he finds out that you are contesting it in court, he remembers what happened well, re-reads his notes and appears in court confident and with all the answers required to assure that you are convicted.

Which situation would you prefer?

Fair point, but if the situation is that black and white and he has so much evidence up his sleeve, it is unlikely I WOULD be contesting it - see my example above about running straight into his radar trap.

I only fight battles on the side of the road that are on really shakey ground, and quite often theres lots of them, viz "measuring" a riders speed from the other end of a straight from behind another car and ticketing him for it - this wont stand up in a court of law, and is worth calling his bluff on - chances are he will let you go with a "warning" hehe because he knows he is full of shit and he now knows you will challenge it. Basically I'm about trying to not HAVE to defend it in court or in writing if I don't have to. My strategy has so far worked and I have never had to go to court - if I get let off (usually do) its on the roadside or in correspondence later on.

So yeah I'd go along with that - keep mouth shut when you're really fucked, debate it if you know he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Steve

[Ixion]

..
I didn't say to do a runner - thats dangerous and illegal. I said to stop when he tells you to, and watch him drive off into the distance following the rest of the group. At this point you do NOT have to remain stopped, AND you can ride wherever you choose - its not against the law, so ride back the way you came from. If the group buggers off legally in all directions he gets to stop one of you, not all of you.

..

Strictly, true.

The law (Transport Act 1998)

114 Power to require driver to stop and give name and address, etc

(2) An enforcement officer in a vehicle following another vehicle may, by displaying flashing blue, or blue and red, lights or sounding a siren, require the driver of the other vehicle to stop.
...
(4) The driver of a vehicle that is stopped under subsection (2) is not obliged to remain stopped if the vehicle with flashing lights and siren does not itself stop in the near vicinity of the place where the driver has stopped.

A strict interpretation of the law may not always be the path of most wisdom

[MarkH]

A strict interpretation of the law may not always be the path of most wisdom

So you pull over and the cop keeps going, how long do you wait before it occurs to you that he isn't coming back? 30min? 1hr? 2hrs?

[Ixion]

Well, it's not time related. The law says that you are entitled to piss off if the cop does not stop "in the near vicinity" of where you are.

So, I guess , once he's out of sight you'd be pretty safe arguing that he didn't stop in your "near vicinity".

You don't have to wait for him to come back. Legally speaking , anyway. Of course, that MIGHT end up with one pissed off cop looking for you.

[CookMySock]

So you pull over and the cop keeps going, how long do you wait before it occurs to you that he isn't coming back? 30min? 1hr? 2hrs?

Depends on what you were doing before or when you got pulled over, and how many demerit points you have already. For some, it will not matter - for others they will run and never stop running haha.

Of course, that MIGHT end up with one pissed off cop looking for you.

THAT, you can count on. NOW he will be wanting to speak to you for sure - up to you whether you want to speak to him. Don't be tempted to ride on in the same direction - he will flag you down for sure and then you legally must stop, and remain stopped. Disappear into the long grass and get on the phone. IF you are absolutely 100% fair and square straight-up legal, then ride on, by all means, but be prepared to tell him to get stuffed, but be sure. Quite possibly you will get to ride past the rest of the lemmings who all pulled over in a group and give them a wave as you go past!

The bottom line is, 90% of the people in your group have evaded the fuzz legally - how you play your joker is now up to you.

If you are in a group ride and you all get flagged down by a cop stopped on the side of the road, then quickly flick your right indicator on and do a head-check to the right and behind you as you approach him - bugger me you will miss his hand signal to stop, but hey! you are legally allowed to do a head check before you pass the bike in front of you.

There are lots and lots of fun grey areas and misunderstandings to explore that will at least get you out of being pulled over. IF they come after you lights-flashing, well you're fucked, but I'm a trier. Oops, sorry officer I thought blah blah blah.. my bad! Hardest part - keeping a straight face.

Steve

[Ixion]

I have actually had this happen more than once, quite genuinely.

Tootling along, somewhat over the limit, red and blue lights and siren behind.

"Oh shit. ". Pull over, and lo and behold, cop goes blasting past and disappears up the road.

Wait a moment , nope he ain't stopping , guess he wasn't after me at all. Start up again and head off (as noted, NOT the way the cop went).

After all, he might have been on his way to a murder or something. How am I to know.

If I stop, and he doesn't I'm assuming that he didn't want to speak to me.

[scumdog]

Never do anything that will make the cop realise you are going to defend the ticket.

In 4 weeks, the cop will have issued dozens of tickets. If you don't stand out in his memory, he will be hard pressed to remember anything. He'll claim he picked you out of a line of traffic.. but he won't remember the weather, the colour of your helmet, or if you had a passenger.

But even if you lose, we all win.

They can only write a dozen tickets a day, because you pay em.

If they all cost the cop half a day in court, they would only bother with real speeders, not just bikers who do 115 passing a truck.

(a) I ALWAYS make notes on each speeding ticket ('cos everybody thinks they can get off on them - rarely any other type of ticket) as I expect to have to go to Court when they defend it.
Never ever have.
Why? Cos I don'y do 'iffy' speed tickets and I always disclose what I have - and that's enough to convince the 'innocent' speeder he's gonna get screwed in Court.

(b) Yep, I would go for the 'real speeders' if all the '115 passsing a truck' types defended their tickets - I'd also just ignore all the other offences when I managed to get away from Court and still target the 115 guys as well....

[slopster]

Most the cops I've met on the side of the road over the last few years seemed reasonable. I'm always as polite as possible because attitude wont get you anywhere even if it feels good at the time. About half of them let me off with a warning or a reduced fine. Half of them did it by the books and gave me what I had coming. One dickhead however ticketed me for something I didn't even do just because some other driver said I did.

Cut a long story short I tried to take that one to court and eventually the police changed there mind at the last minute and pulled out so that was ok.

Don't know how you would defend a speeding ticket though cos if the cop says you were speeding (and he's probably not lieing - just fucked up and pinged the wrong vehicle), and he saw it on his radar and you say you weren't, who are they going to believe?

[CookMySock]

One dickhead however ticketed me for something I didn't even do just because some other driver said I did. [....] eventually the police changed there mind at the last minute.

and that is the way of it. They will try one on, right up to the last second to see if you cave in. Thats just how the game is played.

ticket though cos if the cop says you were speeding, and he saw it on his radar and you say you weren't, who are they going to believe?

The cops won't lie in court, not about a pissy speeding ticket anyway - Its not worth it. This is only their job, not their religion. The judge will believe the cop if its his word for yours.

"Oh shit. ". Pull over, and lo and behold, cop goes blasting past and disappears up the road.

I got the same thing after I split to the front of the lights through 40-50 cars, boy I thought I was screwed, but he wasn't after me. I had a little something strapped on the back that I shouldna too..

If I stop, and he doesn't I'm assuming that he didn't want to speak to me.

And that is a fair and reasonable assumption, and certainly one you can apologise for if you're mistaken, and he DID want to speak to you.. "I'm sorry officer! Genuine mistake!"

I don'y do 'iffy' speed tickets and I always disclose what I have - and that's enough to convince the 'innocent' speeder he's gonna get screwed in Court.

Good on ya. Pretty much I won't challenge these. Ploughing headlong into a speedtrap is instant death and mostly I think they are fair enough. If the cop that tagged me recently had looked up at the oncoming traffic instead of enjoying the scenery after a long day, he would have seen me pull back in after the line of cars I passed - $120 fine, oh well.

Cue the recent examples on KB where some bloke gets heavily targetted coz the fuzz hears some bike nearby at redline - well into the 'iffy' category. Next example, some bikie splits a cop off and then cruises along at 105-108 km/hr and the cop books him for 115k. From behind a line of cars. From the other end of the straight. 'iffy' !

Steve

[blossomsowner]

Yep, good advice.

You should always go to court if you didn't do the offence.

But screaming at the cop on the side of the road won't help.

Quietly deny the offence.

Questions like "why were you speeding" are NOT the cop giving you a chance to produce an adequate reason. They are just the cop asking you for a confession, which he will write on the ticket.

He won't let you off, he will just record that "dickhead said he was speeding 'cos he was "

Rules...

- Ride in a group...
- Choose roads that are underpoliced...
- Choose roads that twist, and turn, and thus naturally make your speed vary...
- Only tail-end charlie stops...and he politely insists he wasnt speeding
- never admit anything
- every group ride you go on, toss $5 in the kitty. Use it to defend every ticket..

Never do anything that will make the cop realise you are going to defend the ticket.

In 4 weeks, the cop will have issued dozens of tickets. If you don't stand out in his memory, he will be hard pressed to remember anything. He'll claim he picked you out of a line of traffic.. but he won't remember the weather, the colour of your helmet, or if you had a passenger.

You dont have to prove you werent speeding. You only have to cast doubt on any aspect of the ticket, to get off.

Even if you lose, the fine may not be any higher. Sometimes the court imposed fine is lower.

But even if you lose, we all win.

They can only write a dozen tickets a day, because you pay em.

If they all cost the cop half a day in court, they would only bother with real speeders, not just bikers who do 115 passing a truck.

what genius advice..........especially for groups. good on you