Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 106 to 120 of 125

Thread: Police news release - "Matching rider skills to their bikes"

  1. #106
    Join Date
    26th February 2005 - 15:10
    Bike
    Ubrfarter V Klunkn,ffwabbit,Petal,phoebe
    Location
    In the cave of Adullam
    Posts
    13,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Interesting wee spike there at 35-39...
    Hard to draw any conclusions without knowing how many actual (active) riders in each age group. Which is very very hard to do. There are figures for licence holders in each group, but so many class 6 licences are 'inactive'. (same problem for trucks - shed load of folk have a HGV licence but haven't driven a lorry in decade)

    35-39 may be the "Kids are old enough , got a bit of spare coin, going to get a bike again age". Then after a few bins, they decide , maybe not, and the figures start dropping. Or, maybe it's something else. Last of the youthful hormones before old age nannaism sets in.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  2. #107
    Join Date
    24th July 2006 - 11:53
    Bike
    KTM 1290 SAR
    Location
    Wgtn
    Posts
    5,541
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Hard to draw any conclusions without knowing how many actual (active) riders in each age group. Which is very very hard to do. There are figures for licence holders in each group, but so many class 6 licences are 'inactive'. (same problem for trucks - shed load of folk have a HGV licence but haven't driven a lorry in decade)

    35-39 may be the "Kids are old enough , got a bit of spare coin, going to get a bike again age". Then after a few bins, they decide , maybe not, and the figures start dropping. Or, maybe it's something else. Last of the youthful hormones before old age nannaism sets in.
    May be my imagination but it seems I know a lot of off road riders that age...
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  3. #108
    Join Date
    2nd August 2008 - 08:57
    Bike
    '23 CRF 1100
    Location
    Hamilton
    Posts
    2,488
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    (same problem for trucks - shed load of folk have a HGV licence but haven't driven a lorry in decade)
    So true - 11 years in my case since I have driven anything that requires my class 2 or 4 license.
    ----------------------------------------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by PrincessBandit View Post
    I realised that having 105kg of man sliding into my rear was a tad uncomfortable
    "If the cops didn't see it, I didn't do it!"
    - George Carlin (RIP)

  4. #109
    Join Date
    19th August 2007 - 18:49
    Bike
    GSX-R600 k8
    Location
    Palmerston Otago
    Posts
    2,176
    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    Either way I don't like it one bit. I don't like people who lie to me, I like it less when I am actually paying them to lie to me. And I like it least of all when they try to use those lies as excuses to take away my freedoms

    BRONZ will be formally contacting Inspector Dunbier, to find the source of his claims. And seeking a formal retraction.

    You mean like when BRONZ tells everyone (including government ministers) that "a study of ACC statistics revealed that 80% of motorcycle accidents was caused by other car drivers"...

    ...yet forget to mention that the particular study they were referring to was only analysing accidents on a few particular Auckland streets...???

  5. #110
    Join Date
    21st August 2004 - 12:00
    Bike
    2017 Suzuki Dl1000
    Location
    Picton
    Posts
    5,177
    Quote Originally Posted by dipshit View Post
    You mean like when BRONZ tells everyone (including government ministers) that "a study of ACC statistics revealed that 80% of motorcycle accidents who caused by other car drivers"...

    ...yet forget to mention that the particular study they were referring to was only analysing accidents on a few particular Auckland streets...???
    You have mentioned this claim a couple of times now, I would be interested to read both the claim and the study it refers to. Can you provide a link or reference to these?
    Time to ride

  6. #111
    Join Date
    21st May 2005 - 21:12
    Bike
    2020 ls650 boulevard
    Location
    new plymouth
    Posts
    3,718
    Quote Originally Posted by mstriumph View Post
    i'm not saying you are wrong, sunhuntin, but in all fairness you didn't take the arguement far enough

    ......... there are arrogant, dangerous nitwits in ALL age groups ... it would be helpful if they were all confined to one group [like ulysses] but, in my experience, there are no more of them in that group than there are in any other ....
    this is true, and its also the reason i ride solo most of the time. its gotta be a pretty big event for me to choose to group ride. my main group is the triumph club, but the ulysses cross over to there as well, so i avoid them as well, except for charity rides.
    my main argument was the fact that born again bikers tend to have slower reaction times, and less ability to handle the power of the big bikes. so the bike they rode when the were 20 could go what? 70mph? todays bikes can go upwards of 200k. many dont realise that, which is what worries me.

    but, yeh, i agree. there are assholes/bad riders in all groups. i see the possible danger, and i minimise my exposure to it as best i can.
    my blog: http://sunsthomasandfriends.weebly.com/index.html

    the really happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery when on a detour.

  7. #112
    Join Date
    19th August 2007 - 18:49
    Bike
    GSX-R600 k8
    Location
    Palmerston Otago
    Posts
    2,176
    Quote Originally Posted by Jantar View Post
    You have mentioned this claim a couple of times now, I would be interested to read both the claim and the study it refers to. Can you provide a link or reference to these?
    The claims...

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10518419

    "Owners of petrol motorcycles will have to pay $42.93 more to register their machines, on top of the fuel levy, because of their higher risk of injury on the roads. The Bikers' Rights Organisation says this is unfair, as it believes most serious injuries to motorcyclists are caused by collisions with heavier vehicles."

    http://feeds.beehive.govt.nz/release...lion%2Bproblem

    While in three quarters of accidents the motorcyclist was not at fault"



    The actual study where that 75% figure came from.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10445028

  8. #113
    Join Date
    26th February 2005 - 15:10
    Bike
    Ubrfarter V Klunkn,ffwabbit,Petal,phoebe
    Location
    In the cave of Adullam
    Posts
    13,624
    Quote Originally Posted by dipshit View Post
    You mean like when BRONZ tells everyone (including government ministers) that "a study of ACC statistics revealed that 80% of motorcycle accidents was caused by other car drivers"...

    ...yet forget to mention that the particular study they were referring to was only analysing accidents on a few particular Auckland streets...???
    All's grist that comes to my mill. Though I think the study referred only to multi vehicle accidents.
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  9. #114
    Join Date
    21st August 2004 - 12:00
    Bike
    2017 Suzuki Dl1000
    Location
    Picton
    Posts
    5,177
    OK, now I understand. You have unfortunately mixed the data from various sources.

    BRONZ claimed "most serious injuries to motorcyclists are caused by collisions with heavier vehicles", no actual percentage or study is referred to.

    The 75% figure came from the ACC as claimed by Marion Street in parliament. Again no actual study was reffered to, so the accuracy of the data cannot be verified. However as she was minister of ACC it is likely that this data was provided by ACC, and not as a result of any particular study.

    Where you do refer to a study, it is actually just a report of police raising awareness of the fact that 43 of 213 claims in the Auckland region occured on five particular streets. No mention is made of the cause of accidents on those five streets. The report goes on to re-iterate the claim made by Marion Street by saying

    "Ms Wells said 41 per cent of injury motorcycle crashes occurred in situations where drivers did not see the motorcycle.

    In 75 per cent of the accidents the motorcyclists were not at fault."
    Nowhere is any claim ever made of any study.

    However, there have been many international studies that have looked into the causes of motorcycle accidents, and every single one that I have read has made the claim that most multi-vehicle accidents involving motorcycles are not the motorcyclist's fault. The percentages have varied with the lowest (from memory) being New Zealand where 66% of accidents were the other drivers fault to Britain where it was almost 90%.

    Edit: I have the link to one of the most comprehensive studies ever carried out: http://www.motorcyclesafetyinfo.com/...pth_study.html
    Last edited by Jantar; 5th December 2008 at 14:14.
    Time to ride

  10. #115
    Join Date
    21st May 2005 - 21:12
    Bike
    2020 ls650 boulevard
    Location
    new plymouth
    Posts
    3,718
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkH View Post
    What if the sort of person that would buy the biggest, most powerful bike in the shop is also the sort of person that would push the limits too far for their skill level? Maybe this guy would also have crashed a 250cc in the same situation.
    honestly, i dont know how he managed to bin it in the first place. we were heading east, and when i came over the hill, both he and the bike were sitting in the ditch on the other side of the road facing west. he must have been really flying to manage that. a 250 wouldnt have been able to go fast enough to manage that... not to say he wouldnt have ended up in the ditch reguardless, but the damage may have been less.
    the hill wasnt difficult at all [madmals driveway is a millions times worse! ] but it was blind on the other side... im picking he didnt read it right on the run up, and panicked when he got towards the top and couldnt see if there was anything there. the road isnt often used, and the chances of stock being on it would be fairly high. pity he was such an idiot... twas the bikes maiden ride. jerk. being a sportsbike, it would have been a write off.
    my blog: http://sunsthomasandfriends.weebly.com/index.html

    the really happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery when on a detour.

  11. #116
    Join Date
    11th July 2005 - 00:17
    Bike
    2005 FZS1000 "Tasha"
    Location
    out back in the OutBack
    Posts
    1,570
    Quote Originally Posted by sunhuntin View Post
    ..........tend to have slower reaction times, and less ability to handle the power of the big bikes. ...............
    i agree totally with the rest of your post - but generalisations such as this smack of ..... age-ism ..... somehow?

    [yeah - i'm ancient - that could be why i noticed
    but not why i'm commenting ... i'm commenting because generalisations bother me]

    it is true that, as you age, your reactions slow ..... so it follows that a person's reaction time at, say, 50 will be slower than it was when he [or she] was, say 20.
    ------ but whether that is an impediment to safe riding depends how good their reactions were at 20 ...... ? if at 20 that person had good reactions, i'd say there's a fighting chance they'd still be more than adequate by the time they qualified to join Ulysess .....

    personally i've met some 20-something riders whose reactions are total shite and that i wouldn't ride with in a pink fit -- not because they aren't skillful [more skillful than moi in many instances] but because they appear to be dozing when it comes to reacting to road conditions, traffic patterns, etc. ..... when THESE people reach their 50's [if they do] i'd say they'll need tyres hung around them and a bloke walking in front of their bikes carrying a red flag.

    ... insofar as handling the power of big bikes is concerned - hmmmm - can't agree it matters WAT age you are, if you are overconfident and daft enough to get on something you can't handle then you're an idiot and a danger to yourself, the bike and everyone else, no?
    ... ...

    Grass wedges its way between the closest blocks of marble and it brings them down. This power of feeble life which can creep in anywhere is greater than that of the mighty behind their cannons....... - Honore de Balzac

  12. #117
    Join Date
    19th August 2007 - 18:49
    Bike
    GSX-R600 k8
    Location
    Palmerston Otago
    Posts
    2,176
    Quote Originally Posted by Jantar View Post
    The 75% figure came from the ACC as claimed by Marion Street in parliament.
    She had been consulting with BRONZ and other motorcycle bodies. She had BRONZ whispering in her ear.

    I have also even read people's posts around here saying things like "they told us at a BRONZ meeting the other night that most motorcycle accidents are caused by car drivers"



    However, there have been many international studies that have looked into the causes of motorcycle accidents, and every single one that I have read has made the claim that most multi-vehicle accidents involving motorcycles are not the motorcyclist's fault.
    Why only pick out multiple vehicle accidents? Saying most multi-vehicle vehicle accidents are caused by car drivers is one thing. It is quite something else altogether to say "Most motorcycle accidents is not the fault of the rider" That is misleading if you fail to mention if you are only talking about multiple vehicle accidents.



    The percentages have varied with the lowest (from memory) being New Zealand where 66% of accidents were the other drivers fault to Britain where it was almost 90%.
    I am aware of some of those studies. That 90% figure from Britain is the multi-vehicle stat. By ignoring single vehicle accidents you make it look like motorcyclist's shit doesn't stink. But when you add in single vehicle accidents as well - then usually the majority of motorcycle accidents are the fault of the riders.

    BRONZ plays on this smoke and mirrors trick to avoid bad publicity and instead try to gain public sympathy.

  13. #118
    Join Date
    26th February 2005 - 15:10
    Bike
    Ubrfarter V Klunkn,ffwabbit,Petal,phoebe
    Location
    In the cave of Adullam
    Posts
    13,624
    Quote Originally Posted by dipshit View Post
    She had been consulting with BRONZ and other motorcycle bodies. She had BRONZ whispering in her ear.
    Alas, no. Their minders won't let us anywhere near ministers




    BRONZ plays on this smoke and mirrors trick to avoid bad publicity and instead try to gain public sympathy.
    Of course. Damn bad lobby group we'd be if we didn't wouldn't we?

    Are you seriously suggesting that a motorcycle lobby group should court bad publicity and try to gain public antipathy?

    Maybe PR is not where your natural talents lie ?
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark
    This world has lost it's drive, everybody just wants to fit in the be the norm as it were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Vincent
    The manufacturers go to a lot of trouble to find out what the average rider prefers, because the maker who guesses closest to the average preference gets the largest sales. But the average rider is mainly interested in silly (as opposed to useful) “goodies” to try to kid the public that he is riding a racer

  14. #119
    Join Date
    21st May 2005 - 21:12
    Bike
    2020 ls650 boulevard
    Location
    new plymouth
    Posts
    3,718
    a 20 year old, i dont think, would have binned as impressively as this guy did. his slow reaction times contributed to his bin. a younger rider may have been able to pull it back and escape with nothing more than a puckered arse. but then, ive no idea how fast he was actually going. there was a good few mins between myself and the rider in front.
    watching some ulysses members off their bikes also makes me keep away. had one member come into bp when i was there... he musta been 70s? or older? and his hand was shaking so badly when he was trying to swipe his card, that it made me wonder how much control does he have over his handlebars? and by shaking, i mean washing machine spin cycle.

    please note i said older riders TEND, not that they all do. the survival of the reactions times they had at 20 also depends on how many years since they were on a bike and needed those quick reactions to survive. it all depends on many things.
    ive noticed when im a passenger with susan, who used to ride a scooter but not for 10 years or more, i spot danger ahead a lot faster than she does. if i gave up riding for the comforts of a car, theres no way that ability would stay with me for 40 years. like many instincts, lack of use sees them dumbed down to the point they arent there. even in 6 or so the years since ive ridden a bicycle, a lot of the skills i took for granted have vanished. i used to feel 100% safe on my old pushie, but when i borrowed susans, i was scared shitless.

    i agree on the over confidence thing as well. thats why i wont go near a sportsbike with a 10ft pole. i like seeing the end of the ride and recounting the tales afterwards. any idiot can bin a bike... its not that hard to do. it takes skill to NOT bin. [note: im meaning solo vehicle bins with no outside influence on the incident like wet/oil/stocky roads or other vehicles pulling out etc]
    my blog: http://sunsthomasandfriends.weebly.com/index.html

    the really happy person is one who can enjoy the scenery when on a detour.

  15. #120
    Join Date
    8th November 2004 - 11:00
    Bike
    GSXR 750 the wanton hussy
    Location
    Not in Napier now
    Posts
    12,765
    Quote Originally Posted by dipshit View Post
    BRONZ plays on this smoke and mirrors trick to avoid bad publicity and instead try to gain public sympathy.
    Everybody has their own angle. And absolute truth in statistics only exists in your imagination. I'd rather have someone in bat for me than against if there is to be any fast and loose playing with numbers....
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •