No need to retake defensive driving if under 25!

[Ragingrob]

I know there has been quite a bit of talk on here about how ridiculous it is to have to pay to re-do a defensive driving course for your motorbike full if you have already done a course for your car full, and how much it pisses people off.

I was plenty pissed off thinking that after 4 years I've gotta do the same course again just to reduce time on my restricted license, only to be more pissed off when I find that the only course times are during my work hours. No way do I wanna wait 18 months for my bloody full.

So I ring LTSA and let them know my position, surprisingly a nice lady fills me in on the fact that If you have previously done a defensive driving course and are under 25, then it is absolutely fine to use that same certificate in order to reduce time on your restricted license, even if you've already "used" the certificate for a car license previously.

So there ya go, if you're under 25, you do not have to find the time and money to do a defensive driving course if you've already done one for your car license or vice versa.



EDIT:

Alright, called again and spoke to another lady, turns out she shares your opinion Ixion in that one must have had both their car and motorcycle restricted license for at least 6 months before doing that one defensive driving course if you are UNDER 25, but if you are OVER 25 you may use the same certificate.

Which is exactly the opposite to what the original lady informed me... Great one!

I questioned why must under 25s re-sit defensive driving and not over 25s, seeing that the under 25s would have done it more recently. She stated manner of factly, "because they are more mature". Pity the motorcycle crash statistics do not follow that

So once again I'll have to write a letter of persuasion to the GDLS exemption people down in Palmy... and pay the $22.50 again dammit!

If I can't sit my license in March solely because DD courses are run during my work hours I will be mightily peeved!

[ckai]

What about us old buggers (well between 25 and 30)? I don't even know how long ago I did my course for the car. That could be a problem right there. Don't even know where the certificate is. Could be another issue.

Would be sweet if they don't expire though. It's descrimination if they only do it for under 25's

[Ragingrob]

What about us old buggers (well between 25 and 30)? I don't even know how long ago I did my course for the car. That could be a problem right there. Don't even know where the certificate is. Could be another issue.

Would be sweet if they don't expire though. It's descrimination if they only do it for under 25's

It was clearly under 25s due to the fact that they would have done their course at the very most 8 years ago. In terms of certificates, one should be able to contact their local defensive driving course instructor who should hopefully be able to find your details in the system and print a new one.

[ckai]

It was clearly under 25s due to the fact that they would have done their course at the very most 8 years ago. In terms of certificates, one should be able to contact their local defensive driving course instructor who should hopefully be able to find your details in the system and print a new one.

You young 'uns have it so easy now-a-days. When I was your age...



I might do some digging and see what I can come up with. I might give it a go anyway. What's the harm in trying? They can only tell me to piss off for being a cheeky sod.

[Ragingrob]

Fair enough, give the LTSA licensing association a call or just turn up with your certificate and see how it goes haha, good luck!

[Ixion]

There's a gotcha. from the LTSA

If you're under 25, you should remember that to get a time reduction you need to have held your restricted licence for at least six months before you do the course.

Which is unlikely. In other words it is not valid if you took the course before you got your 6R . And cos it's class specific it has to be before the 6R not the 1R. Over 25, you're good to go. Maybe. There's a bureaucratic kludge too, because usually the certificate has a tear off section that the license people keep, and if you turn up with the certificate missing the tear off bit they say it's no good. The legality of that position is doubtful, the tearoff bit is just for their office convenience. But the requirement to have 6 months time up on the restricted before the test is harder to work round.

[Ragingrob]

There's a gotcha. from the LTSA




Which is unlikely. In other words it is not valid if you took the course before you got your 6R . And cos it's class specific it has to be before the 6R not the 1R. Over 25, you're good to go. Maybe. There's a bureaucratic kludge too, because usually the certificate has a tear off section that the license people keep, and if you turn up with the certificate missing the tear off bit they say it's no good. The legality of that position is doubtful, the tearoff bit is just for their office convenience. But the requirement to have 6 months time up on the restricted before the test is harder to work round.

Well I checked with the licensing official several times to make sure we were both along the same lines... And she definitely said yes I can use the defensive driving course certificate, which I received years before I started riding and have already used for my car license, in order to reduce time on my motorcycle restricted license this year.

[Ragingrob]

Oh and over 25 you're not good to go, as you must retake the defensive driving course... According to the LTSA.

[Ragingrob]

Alright, called again and spoke to another lady, turns out she shares your opinion Ixion in that one must have had both their car and motorcycle restricted license for at least 6 months before doing that one defensive driving course if you are UNDER 25, but if you are OVER 25 you may use the same certificate.

Which is exactly the opposite to what the original lady informed me... Great one!

I questioned why must under 25s re-sit defensive driving and not over 25s, seeing that the under 25s would have done it more recently. She stated manner of factly, "because they are more mature". Pity the motorcycle crash statistics do not follow that

So once again I'll have to write a letter of persuasion to the GDLS exemption people down in Palmy... and pay the $22.50 again dammit!

If I can't sit my license in March solely because DD courses are run during my work hours I will be mightily peeved!

[Ixion]

What the law says
Driver Licensing Rule 1999 Sect 19 Full Licence
requirements

Class 6 (a) If under 25 years of age, holds and has held a Class 6R licence for either—
(i) At least 18 months; or
(ii) At least 12 months if the applicant provides a certificate showing successful completion by the applicant of an approved course of a type specified in clause 93(a) undertaken at least 6 months after the applicant's restricted licence was issued
(b) If 25 years of age or over, holds and has held a Class 6R licence for either—
(i) At least 6 months; or
(ii) At least 3 months if the applicant provides a certificate showing successful completion by the applicant of an approved course of a type specified in clause 93(a)
(c) Passes the full licence test required under clause 48
(d) If 75 years of age or over, produces a medical certificate in accordance with clause 44

[Ixion]

You COULD use the same certificate for car and bike restricted , provided that you obtained it six months into the restricted period for both licences. ie you sat your class 1 and class 6 licences at the same time. get class 1R and class 6R at (about ) the same time, and six months on you could use the same certificate.

Problem comes when people want to use the certificate they used for their class 1, years ago, before they even got their 6L.

[CB ARGH]

Funny thing is, when you join the police you must have completed the defensive driving course, however if you have already used the certificate then you are fine, no matter what age or how long ago it was.

So why isn't this the same for when I do it between two classes of licence!

[JamesHD]

Funny thing is, when you join the police you must have completed the defensive driving course, however if you have already used the certificate then you are fine, no matter what age or how long ago it was.

So why isn't this the same for when I do it between two classes of licence!

I also found that quite interesting. Filling out the police application form; one of the supporting documents states that you must have done a defensive driving course, and in the same document states that a defensive driving certificate never expires.

Rang the LTSA questioning the licensing department about this to no avail.
They said "sorry, you have to re-do the defensive course because you didn't have your motorbike restricted for more than 6 months when you did your last course."

So once again I'll have to write a letter of persuasion to the GDLS exemption people down in Palmy... and pay the $22.50 again dammit!

I'm keen to hear how you get on.

[Ixion]

The certificate never expires. But to take advantage of it to get the licence time reduction you must, if under 25 , have had a 6R for at least 6 months when you did it.

So, in theory you could get your 6R in Jan 2009, sit the DD course in July 2009 and use the certificate in 2029. The lifetime of the certificate is a different thing to the rule that says you only get the reduction if you have a certificate (no matter how old) that was granted when you had had a 6R for six months.

It might be nice too, if people were to remember that the purpoose of the course is to make you a safer rider or driver, not give you time off your apprenticeship. People on full licences have been known to take the course you know.

[Ragingrob]

Writing my exemption form out as we speak... I still reckon that Ride Right Ride Safe run by BRONZ should become an approved course for motorcyclists, I learnt a shit load more in that about the dangers of riding than anyone would doing Defensive Driving!

Stupid thing is, I can't believe that I rang LTSA up about this defensive driving crap and got two answers saying the exact opposite... I wonder if I could have recorded the phone call and booked my full based on what LTSA told me?!