Melting tar

[prettybillie]

Interesting. I was coming along the same road myself (around noon-ish from memory) and the police told me that traffic was being diverted as a bike had gone down.

I heard the same thing on the news last night - does anyone know any information about the riders? Are they ok?

[slofox]

I have just fired off an email to NZTA asking them for info about the level of tar melt we have here....be interesting to see if they bother to reply...stay posted for further updates, folks!!!!

[cowboyz]

having just finished a 1700km tour of the north island over the weekend in some of the hottest temps I have ever ridden in tar melt was a HUGE problem. Had to really keep your wits about you about how you took a corner. Got through it ok but at some stages our speeds dropped considerably to match the road conditions. Really un-nerving riding in conditions like that.

[varminter]

I drive the Whakatane Rotorua road twice a week. The surface over the Rotoma's was done a few month's ago, it started peeling off almost immediately. I was over that way today, they are repairing it yet again. I was behind a truck watching the top layer fly off as it passed.They need better glue. Some of the repairs round Rotoiti look like the road has been polished, shows up well with polarised lenses. As a newbie I live in fear.

[hayd3n]

ive seen roads down here with no problems get relayed ,and end up worse than they were before, and other roads which need attention and they dont get it!!

[cold comfort]

this is an issue i would welcome some intelligent/informed discussion on. Vistor from Perth was stunned our roads melt at 20 deg. No doubt they will trot out the "but they don't have cold temps there" so what about Death Valley in the US? Freezing in the winter, hell in the summer. I suspect cheap shortcuts for our 3rd world roads! I too have watched new seal peel off within days of being laid.

[DonaldH]

this is an issue i would welcome some intelligent/informed discussion on. Vistor from Perth was stunned our roads melt at 20 deg. No doubt they will trot out the "but they don't have cold temps there" so what about Death Valley in the US? Freezing in the winter, hell in the summer. I suspect cheap shortcuts for our 3rd world roads! I too have watched new seal peel off within days of being laid.

Agreed - by the way does anyone know if there was a bike down at Coatsville? The tar was almost in pools.

[Paulus]

The level of melt seems to be relatively new. You can ride a section of older road and it's fine and then the new section is not only melting but it's had two sections where the tyres go re-laid.

I don't think so. This has been happening in Canterbury in summer for as long as I've been a motorcyclist (25+ years). That stuff is lethally slippery too. Transit grit it which makes it slightly less dangerous but we then have to contend with the grit as well.

Transit should spend some money asphalting some state hghways instead of planning a $3.7B tunnel in Auckland. That money would go a long way and would seriously improve road safety.

[Pedrostt500]

This time last year I was doing the Demolition of the old Shell Ashphlet plant on Burnham warf in Wellington, so had a chance to pic the brains of a shell engineer on this subject, basicaly all tar is is the left over Heavy Oil from oil refining, what is left once all the lighter oils and fuels have been removed, Hence why when you spill petrol or diesle onto tar it melts and gets slippery real fast.
the higher the melting point of tar the more of the lighter oils have been removed, some times the wrong tar is used in the wrong place, good old human error, often the tar is good for 90% of the year, and the couple of weeks of the year that we get hot weather, we end up with a sticky mess.
the likes of the American roads are offten concrete or have a 8 to 12" concrete base, some roads in Aussie are built this way to, so hence handel the greater tempreture variations better.
At the end of the day road building in NZ comes down to cost, and there is only so much cost that a population of 4 mill can afford, so hence the state of our roads right through the country.
If you want better roads import another 20 million people.

[quickbuck]

Fact:
If the contractors laid the road properly the first time, then they wouldn't have anything to do next year.

Around this area they are shockers!

Anyhow, yes, summer is the time for slippery tar.

Had an interesting ride on Saturday.
Took a little 1990 FZR250 out to give it a good run.
I took it out of Bulls to Turakina, and then through Turakina Valley road.
It was a blast. Had a moment as I come over a RH crest, and one of the farmers tractors had torn up a section of road.
I tell you, if I was younger I would have packed myself, and most likely binned it. As it was, I just rode it out.

Then turned onto Makuhou and had a great little blast. Maintained near on 100k through the whole thing.
I didn't even notice the pea gravel until I pushed it through an extra tight bit and the rear stepped out a bit.... Again, it could have been worse if I wasn't aware of what was happening.....
Thing is there was no signs warning me of either event, other than the weather has been cooking, and work has been done to repair sections of the road.
Trucks tear up roads, and spill stuff too. Well before the repair sections.

You just have to have your wits about you on country roads....

Oh, I didn't mention the sheep that was on the wrong side of the fence either... Or the slippery effluent where the mob has been moved.

A great little track none the less. Will take my pushbike next time though...
But I will do this insteed

[cold comfort]

At the end of the day road building in NZ comes down to cost, and there is only so much cost that a population of 4 mill can afford, so hence the state of our roads right through the country.
If you want better roads import another 20 million people.[/QUOTE]

Actually, it is my understanding the govt have for years siphoned off large sums of cash taken from the motorists in the form of fuel taxes, levys, registration costs, tourism etc and diverted them to the consolidated fund. i.e funding for the roads from 4 mil people would be adequate had it been spent on roading

[MSTRS:Me]

Actually, it is my understanding the govt have for years siphoned off large sums of cash taken from the motorists in the form of fuel taxes, levys, registration costs, tourism etc and diverted them to the consolidated fund. i.e funding for the roads from 4 mil people would be adequate had it been spent on roading

Correct. But in that case we'd have shit hospitals instead. Um...hang on....

[slofox]

I have just fired off an email to NZTA asking them for info about the level of tar melt we have here....be interesting to see if they bother to reply...stay posted for further updates, folks!!!!

Had a reply this morning......

"Thank you for your email dated 9 February 2009.

I have forwarded your email to the appropriate department.


Regards

Contact Response Team"


Any wagers on whether they will "lose" it or not?

[Ixion]

On behalf of BRONZ Ive been delving into this.

Firstly, it is , it seems, BITUMEN not TAR. Transit (who are now someone else) get very wobbly if you call it tar.

I managed to get through to a purportedly "appropriate" technical person at Transit (I'm old - I don't change).

They say they recognise there is a problem (gee, no shit Sherlock). And have done some "investigation"

She also confirmed that there are several grades of bitumen. With different melting points. She said that in the late 1990s they (Transit) widely specified the softest grades. Apparently because these are easiest to apply (thus, cheaper) and less prone to cracking (which may be a valid point in the south island). She indicated that they had now decided this was a wee mistake. But, meanwhile of course, there are many many kilometres of this crap surface out there. "What do you plan to do about that ?" "um, ah ..."

She also indicated that when a new road is laid , or a major renovation Transit specify the grade to use. But hinted that for repairs , the choice of grade is left up to the contractor. Which would explain why the "patches" are always worse.


She also said that if we noticed an area where bleeding was occurring, we should contact their regional office who would "get it fixed". Because "it is a safety issue"

She has promised to email me contact details for these regional offices. I'm still waiting but if I get them Ill post them up.

I told her "Start with the whole of SH22". She didn't know where that was . She also indicated that the "repair" consisted of spreading grit on the road. I explained the side effects of that . "Oh. ah, um yes".

Once I have these regional addresses and contacts Ill start putting some heavy words on them. I suggest others do the same in their own areas.

If anyone want the name and number of the woman I spoke to, PM me. But I think the regional offices are probably the better place to work on. Apparently they make the decisions about this sort of thing.

[cold comfort]

Thanks for that Ixion. Loose criterion coupled with substandard contracters/repairs does not surprise me. I had thought it would be a subject BRONZ could/would take issue with. Unfortunately the general motoring public seems to accept the shoddy state of the roads and i include AA in that. Have some leave coming up and will lobby some of the bureaucrats locally when i can get a moment. Mind you the council here are too currently obsessed with building an unsustainable white elephant (in the form of a stadium) to be concerned with infrastructure. They think dumping shit further out to sea is a solution to the contaminated swimming beaches being regularly closed!