Wellington Ride to Wairarapa for newbies 8 April 2007 Photos here

[Trudes]

Is the TinHutt(?) open on Sundays? Should we go there for lunch instead?

[Paul in NZ]

Is the TinHutt(?) open on Sundays? Should we go there for lunch instead?

I'm pretty sure it is..... Although the packed lunch thing woked for us last time.

Cheers

[merv]

So the attitude is to keep your head buried in the sand, and never expect bad stuff to happen, to never learn from the experiences of the past, and just keep doing it the same old way then?

I'm not sure if you were talking about my comments or not because basically all I was saying is that typically after the lunch break it is hard to keep everyone together. It is like herding cats when they all have a mind of their own, so if they all want to go and do different things then the organiser can't cater for all of that and that is when the others have to take responsibility for their own choices.

So we won't be seeing you much then Jim2 even though the couple of rides you did go on that I was on you seemed to enjoy the ride?

As for Sunday's ride BB#1 did the initial rider briefing, it was agreed we would regroup at the top of the hill and again at Featherston and take the direct route to Martinborough and there was a TEC - pretty clear and simple and everyone was able to keep up with so many stops over a short distance.

After lunch BB#1 headed off so Colapop took charge and announced that the next step was to go to Lake Ferry and then back home around Western Lakes road. Many decided not to do this while many did go to Lake Ferry. It was about personal choice.

So was there a problem? The ones on the ride don't seem to be saying so.

[Paul in NZ]

Just to add my two cents worth......

Rides advertised as being suitable for beginneres or less experienced people should (in my very humble opinion) be slightly more disciplined than a general gathering. I think it also speaks volumes that a lot of more experienced riders like to go on these rides as well. Maybe a lot of folks LIKE the idea of a gentler 'smell the roses' type ride...

Unfortunately, history has shown me that when motorcyclists get together on the road they usually behave with less common sense than usual and like Jim2 says, that can seriously put a crimp in your day. As time goes by, you DO see people die and get seriously injured and more often than not it's on a group ride. They can be quite a dangerous thing if you get swept up in it.

Vicki and I went to some pains to avoid group riding with KB on sunday. Not because we are incompetent but because a 1970 Triumph, 2 up does NOT behave on the road like even a GN250 does. It takes different lines in corners using a lot more road and braking is accomplished through anticipation and fear induced strength rather than a gentle squeeze of the right hand. As for passing, well, again, anticipation is your friend and if we get baulked by an inexperienced rider at the wrong time we can get ourselves into problems, particularly on the Rimutakas. Its best if we slither over by ourselves..... More experienced riders (but not all) tend to give us a little more room, riding with the classic club on similar machines, no sweat.

Now - whats the point of all this dribble.....

KB has genuine pulling power. Look at the numbers of people that turn up for these rides. Learner / inexperienced rider type rides are a bloody fantastic mutual support feature and must be encouraged. However, we should also recognise that a massed group represents a challenge in weekend traffic on the Rimutakas.

My suggestion would be to break up into groups of 4 or so similar bikes and set off at 30 sec intervals...

Problem is, like any suggestion, how will you enforce it? Answer, you can't - motorcyclists are rebellious individuals and don't like being told what to do. Long may that continue.

So - lets face it, there is always going to be mayhem and people will get hurt (emotionally and physically). Some will survive and thrive and some will wither and drift off into other activities, thats the way of it and I'm not sure anything can be done about it, more importantly, I'm not sure anything should be done....

[James Deuce]

I'm not sure if you were talking about my comments or not because basically all I was saying is that typically after the lunch break it is hard to keep everyone together. It is like herding cats when they all have a mind of their own, so if they all want to go and do different things then the organiser can't cater for all of that and that is when the others have to take responsibility for their own choices.

So we won't be seeing you much then Jim2 even though the couple of rides you did go on that I was on you seemed to enjoy the ride?

As for Sunday's ride BB#1 did the initial rider briefing, it was agreed we would regroup at the top of the hill and again at Featherston and take the direct route to Martinborough and there was a TEC - pretty clear and simple and everyone was able to keep up with so many stops over a short distance.

After lunch BB#1 headed off so Colapop took charge and announced that the next step was to go to Lake Ferry and then back home around Western Lakes road. Many decided not to do this while many did go to Lake Ferry. It was about personal choice.

So was there a problem? The ones on the ride don't seem to be saying so.

I'm not critiquing past rides, including last Sunday's one. I'm suggesting that they need to be done differently if they are aimed at newbies, new riders or new to KB inclusive.

You are correct that you wont see me on the large KB rides anymore. You seem to have missed the carnage afflicted rides over the last three years somehow Merv, and yes you are right about enjoying the rides I've been one where it has been broken up into groups that suit quite well. That first October ride was awesome. You and Finn made that ride a huge amount of quick and safe fun.

I just got tired of either ringing TSS to pick up someone's bike, or helping Bruce load a bike onto a trailer that he had to go back to Stokes Valley to get. There are a quite few people that I enjoy riding with in a small group that I've met through KB, but the big rides give me the shits, and people seem to have forgotten even recent lessons on where group rides can go all wrong.

[Colapop]

My preference is for smaller group rides too. I don't like to lead rides as I don't want to have the responsibility of setting the pace that others may feel they have to ride to. KB rides have become a very popular for various reasons, one being the comraderie of like minded people. The social aspect is pretty good. I wouldn't like to see that broken up by smaller groups possibly becoming cliquey. I've heard comments made about that already.

I wish there were no motorcycle accidents - whether on group rides or otherwise. We can only encourage other riders as much as possible to ride safely and respect other riders/road users around them. Smaller group riding is good and I think very large group riding should be left for events like toy runs etc. I guess having responsible mentors willing to take smaller groups under their wing (TCWNR's?) is the answer. Having 'someone' take on the responsibility for organising these sessions is also something that very few people are willing to do.

[Lissa]

Is the TinHutt(?) open on Sundays? Should we go there for lunch instead?

I'm pretty sure its open on Sundays Trudes. Not sure what the prices are like, might be quite expensive, but I dont see any reason people cant bring their own food. Might meet you guys at Rimutex if the weather conditions are good. After the Tin Hutt might ride to Martinb or something.

I class myself as a newbie of sorts, but I take responsiblitly for my own riding, and wont pass anyone. Maybe like Trudes said we have two groups, the Fast and the Slow?

[Paul in NZ]

My preference is for smaller group rides too. I don't like to lead rides as I don't want to have the responsibility of setting the pace that others may feel they have to ride to. KB rides have become a very popular for various reasons, one being the comraderie of like minded people. The social aspect is pretty good. I wouldn't like to see that broken up by smaller groups possibly becoming cliquey. I've heard comments made about that already.

I wish there were no motorcycle accidents - whether on group rides or otherwise. We can only encourage other riders as much as possible to ride safely and respect other riders/road users around them. Smaller group riding is good and I think very large group riding should be left for events like toy runs etc. I guess having responsible mentors willing to take smaller groups under their wing (TCWNR's?) is the answer. Having 'someone' take on the responsibility for organising these sessions is also something that very few people are willing to do.

Smaller sub groups inside bigger rides could be the go. Getting a larger single group of mismatched bikes past traffic is a major problem. From my limited experience, the longer the group the bigger the problem. 5 or 10 bikes - not much problem, 30 bikes - problem...

Responsible mentors? Hmm... I hate the mentor word, it assumes ordinary people know the answers to everything and I sure don't. Anyway, getting people to respect that in a group like KB an individual has some resposibility / authority in a situation is the biggest problem. Besides, whos gunna tell a weedy little poof like you that ya ride like a fairygrandmother....

ooopps....

[Paul in NZ]

Oh... Meant to say....

I'm still going to organise a mid winter overnighter with about 4 to 6 hours ride each way. It would be a great way for people that have never tried motorcycle touring to give it a go and I will organise a propper itinary and probably take a car trailer for luggage / mishaps if that would encourage more folks on smaller bikes to come along.

Cheers

[elle-f]

I'm pretty sure its open on Sundays Trudes. Not sure what the prices are like, might be quite expensive, but I dont see any reason people cant bring their own food. Might meet you guys at Rimutex if the weather conditions are good. After the Tin Hutt might ride to Martinb or something.

I class myself as a newbie of sorts, but I take responsiblitly for my own riding, and wont pass anyone. Maybe like Trudes said we have two groups, the Fast and the Slow?

BUt i am a medium rider - i dont try to keep up with those faster riders at all. i consider myself not a newbie but not experienced. I guess i class myself as somebody who loves getting out there on the motorbike

[Paul in NZ]

BUt i am a medium rider

I thought you had a radian? Honestly - I can't keep up with all these new models - a medium you say? Must be quite spiritual...

[skelstar]

I don't like to be pedantic and all PC but 'Faster/Slower' is likely to encourage aspirations in the hot-headed and immature. Theres no reason why you can't just say 'Experienced/Inexperienced' anyway. The IE get a helped/encouraged/escorted/sheparded whereas the Exp look after themselves.

[Lissa]

I don't like to be pedantic and all PC but 'Faster/Slower' is likely to encourage aspirations in the hot-headed and immature. Theres no reason why you can't just say 'Experienced/Inexperienced' anyway. The IE get a helped/encouraged/escorted/sheparded whereas the Exp look after themselves.

Whatever.... Slow, Med, fast...

I see your point. How about the Experienced look after themselves and the newbies... are looked after ie: a Leader and a Tail End Charlie. etc etc.

[James Deuce]

I don't like to be pedantic and all PC but 'Faster/Slower' is likely to encourage aspirations in the hot-headed and immature. Theres no reason why you can't just say 'Experienced/Inexperienced' anyway. The IE get a helped/encouraged/escorted/sheparded whereas the Exp look after themselves.

It's obviously a lost cause but I'm going to keep tilting at this particular windmill.

You can label it what you want but ego demands that you rate yourself a little better than you actually are.

No one, me included, is saying "thou shalt do it this way or be eternally damned."

But. It is either a group ride at a social pace, a set of groups with common destinations, or an opportunity to learn a little bit and make some sense of the billion things required to get from a to b successfully on a bike.

I'm starting to see why most motorcyclists hit a curmudgeon wall in their 40s sometime and then just ride by themselves from that point on.

If you don't set expectations of behaviour, with clearly defined repercussions if break those expectations, things will never change.

From personal experience, one's skills plateau from time to time, but your ego demands you up your expectations. It is at this point that stuff goes wrong.

Riding in groups is incredibly dangerous and requires a different mindset to going for a fang with mates you know. This is not usually apparent until you are trying to extract your front wheel from between the swingarm and rear wheel of the bike in front who suddenly stopped to make a closer inspection of the new type of reflective marker on the roadside.

[Trudes]

Ok, so are we having a "newbie ride" on Sunday? Any objections?