Criminal intent

**kro** · 13th April 2007, 18:25

I had a discussion on this topic elsewhere, and got mixed reactions.

Basically, I think our justice system needs some harder penalties, to make prison seem less attractive to the down and outs, and to make inmates work 40 hours a week, with things like any monies earned being portioned out with percentages going to the victim or family of.

If you look at the last few months, we have had an 87 yr old found in the Avon river, babies being sexually violated, Graeme Burton kills a guy In Wgtn, a house full of Japanese people is set alight, and it's arson/murder, and just days ago, about 5 mins from a friends place, another body in a river in Chch.

These are just some of the atrocities committed in our country, that just a couple of decades ago would have been front page items, that would have been talked about for weeks afterwards. Today, it's a short segment in the middle of the news, and is overshadowed by a sports team of ours, who beats Australia or England.

As a parent, and the leader of a household, when a behaviour is unacceptable, you tell the offending person that it is not on, and you let the rest of the family know it's unacceptable, and the bloody government should do so too, but our government does not seem to do this anymore, and through our passive stance on crime as a country, are we telling the crims that they are tolerated?.

Some crims can be rehab'd, and put back into the game, some need to be locked away full time. If the meatheads who let Graeme Burton out, had done their job properly, a man would still be alive as I type this, and his Dad would never have been on public television calling for blood.

Are we too soft on crime?. I think we are miles behind the eight ball myself.

**Grahameeboy** · 13th April 2007, 18:29

You are probably right, however, but do crims think about prison when they commit crime..possibly not.

Maybe they know they will go to prison and don't worry about it.

Murderers will murder whatever the punishment.

Isle of Man has no prisons and is virtually crime free.

**kro** · 13th April 2007, 18:33

Thats kinda part of my point GB, the criminal mind is selfish in the extreme, and often doesn't think of the consequences, because there are no serious disincentives for crims, other than jail, and as I have seen in past workmates, who were ex cons, they spoke of jail in a relatively fond way, because it was easy living.

**Quartermile** · 13th April 2007, 18:36

Mate I totaly agree, I also have had a few of these little discussions. Will be very intested to see what others have to say on the subject.

I mean Sky T.V in cells is rediculas, I recently saw an epesode of the FBI files in which the guy who shot but didn't kill two people got 800 years no parol and annother who killed a person anoung other thins, burglary, assult etc got 3 death sentances.

**Grahameeboy** · 13th April 2007, 18:38

Originally Posted by kro

Thats kinda part of my point GB, the criminal mind is selfish in the extreme, and often doesn't think of the consequences, because there are no serious disincentives for crims, other than jail, and as I have seen in past workmates, who were ex cons, they spoke of jail in a relatively fond way, because it was easy living.

I suspect the Human Rights Act intervenes..........they are still locked away and would harder prisons just make crims harder and if they had to work 40 hour weeks I am sure they would still find a way to work the system...........

There was a program that looked at the cons (no pun intended) of prison that in some cases promoted crims............I mean crimes probably happen in prison and if prison was harder it could turn things into a survival of the fittest and make things worse.

Who knows, what seems logical often isn't.

**bull** · 13th April 2007, 18:49

having worked with ex-inmates and current inmates on a re-integration programme i have to agree that 100% of the guys and girls we interviewed all found prison to be a breeze.

My first visit into prison was a nervous affair but once in their it was like a holiday camp but with secure fences, they roamed freely in the yards and had a modest cabin to sleep in.

I agree that punishments need to be harder to discourage crime and to help with this prisons need to be harder, surely a prison should just consult with humans rights and find out what is the least amount of care and support we need to provide to be humane. None of this hot meal shit, i know some families whom struggle to have a hot meal everyday.

My only fear with creating harsher penalties would be that aggravated robberies would end up with murders so as not to leave too many witnesses.

Its a tough subject and it seems that government have put it in the too hard basket and left it at that.

**doc** · 13th April 2007, 19:03

Aaarha, another of my pet grandstand issues. Jail is not about rehabilitation. If they can be rehabilitated you don't need to send them to jail. Jail is for the legal system to feel good. Just like justice, is nothing about the victim, it's about the fact you didn't do as the Govt decreed you should. They passed the Law.

What we need is restitution. If some "R"sole needs to go to jail why let him out. Use them for research instead of poor ole rabbits getting soap in their eyes use the rapists. If the stupid pricks who do crime get caught, get them doing community work "Bring back chain gangs" Humiliation is the best form of punishment.
Why fine someone and keep the money, fines are for the victims.
It may cost more . I think originally Jails were where you held them until they were executed. But thats before we got "Social Workers"

Jail is not about punishment. The system thinks that restricting someones freedom is enough punishment . And we must treat them humanely. Hitcher for God's sake leave my grammar out of this

**Dave Lobster** · 13th April 2007, 19:12

Originally Posted by Grahameeboy

d if prison was harder it could turn things into a survival of the fittest and make things worse.

If prison was a two by six foot solitary cell of solitary confinement for the length of the sentence, with one meal (of soup) a day, prison wouldn't be so attractive to criminals. No exercise breaks, just solitary confinement 24 hours a day.

There wouldn't be much reoffending..

**James Deuce** · 13th April 2007, 19:17

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

If prison was a two by six foot solitary cell of solitary confinement for the length of the sentence, with one meal (of soup) a day, prison wouldn't be so attractive to criminals. No exercise breaks, just solitary confinement 24 hours a day.

There wouldn't be much reoffending..

No. But we'd need a substantial boost in Mental Health funding and the creation of a number of forensic psych units.

**Dave Lobster** · 13th April 2007, 19:22

Only if you let them out.

**James Deuce** · 13th April 2007, 19:26

Forensic psych isn't letting them out. It's an incarceration unit for the criminally, irrevocably insane.

I'd prefer if they bought their own drugs thanks. We already have to fund one of the biggest per head of capita prison systems in the OECD, without having to medicate 100% of inmates as well.

We pay for that you know. We pay for it from our pockets, in classroom sizes, a health system that barely works and a laughable balance of payments. We also pay for an under class with entitlement syndrome. Wanna make that underclass bigger?

**Dave Lobster** · 13th April 2007, 19:29

Originally Posted by Jim2

Wanna make that underclass bigger?

ok.. two per cell..

**James Deuce** · 13th April 2007, 19:31

Can you imagine Disco Dan and skidmark sharing a cell?

*shudder*

**doc** · 13th April 2007, 19:39

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

If prison was a two by six foot solitary cell of solitary confinement for the length of the sentence, with one meal (of soup) a day, prison wouldn't be so attractive to criminals. No exercise breaks, just solitary confinement 24 hours a day.

There wouldn't be much reoffending..

If thats the case why let them out. They would certainly have an attitude problem.