The new HMNZS Canterbury

[Indiana_Jones]

25mm that fires 200 rounds a minute...

Too bad there's only 50 rounds.........which can't be in the gun at anytime until the vessel is shot upon........

Then they have to get permission from the captain, who then has to get permission from Helen Clark, which she will then have to hold an emergency meeting of parlament, and try to reason with the threat in a non violent way, if that fails look for alternative options.

If they do decide to use the gun, then Clark must fly out to the ship with the 2nd key and firing codes. She and the captain must turn their keys at the same time, she then puts in the 24 digit firing code.....

That unlocks the storage case where the ammo is stored (which is at the other end of the vessel from the gun).

A bomb squad followed by a damage control team then move the ammo to the fun.

While this is happening, Clark and the captain are getting the second set of keys and codes out to allow the gun to be armed.

The gun is then loaded, everyone that isn't needed on the ship must leave, as to minimize losses should something go wrong. A safety officer checks the ship 2 times.

Then there is one more meeting held in parlament, to make sure this is what they really want to do (I mean come on, it's a live weapon now).

If that passes, then fire away!

-Indy

[nudemetalz]

When I was in the army (the Terris) I went on an exercise. As well as my Steyr, I had an M79 Grenade Launcher. As they didn't have any grenades available at the time, I had a wooden block put in it.
So when it came time to shoot against the enemy, I was firing blanks from my Steyr as you'd expect and the RSM would tell me to "shoot" a grenade in the direction and I had to yell "BANG" as I "simulated this" !!!!!!!!!!
Sad stuff........

[SPman]

However.. I will agree there isn't a need to have what "Lias" wants... but will agree that we need a front line first strike air force...

And to say that the old skyhawks were never used in anger or fired a live round in anger or armed conflict... errr in my eyes thats a good thing means they were doing there job

They may have been old, but, as an anti shipping attack aircraft, they were still good,the Macchi's were a great backup plane - and the crews and support staff were great - but - that's all gone now - would take 8-10 yrs to bring a new strike aircraft group up to that level of expertise and experience again.
As a Navy, we should be concentrating on robust patrolling of the EEZ, fisheries, etc, with deployment to the immediate environs - that means blue water capable ships, that don't need to be heavily armed. They're dealing mainly with fishing boats and freighters - a Frigate has a very short life expectancy in any serious battle situation, anyway and also need the ability to move stuff around quickly. Capability to work together with the Aussies is also a consideration.I think the way the Navy is heading is the right one for NZ's situation and bank balance - unless the country is prepared to spend 15% of it's GDP on defence, for the next 10 yrs!

A pity about the Airforce though.

[marty]

all the fast jet experience in engineering and flying has gone from the airforce, and without the infrastructure, i can't see fast jets ever becoming part of our defence again.

even the king airs, as our primary rnzaf twin trainer and exec transport around nz, are privately owned, and leased by the airforce, although they are costing a packet due age, and there is some talk that the lease contract (which was for the next 10 years) is going to be terminated.

[Lias]

You cannot be serious? "Invasion" by whom? Fiji? Australia? The United States of America?

The main threat to our nation currently is Indonesia. Most people dont realise that Indonesia is actually the 4th most populated country in the world, with over 220 million people, 88% of whom are muslim. Indonesia is a militant, aggresive nation with a history of attacking its neighbours. Java is also the most overpopulated Island in the entire world. Australia has the majority of its army based in the Northern Territory specifically to warnoff Indonesia. Australia have a strong military, we do not and for this reason we are a potential target for Indonesia which needs more land.

And the rest of your shopping list assumes that we are going to put ourselves in a position where we will stand toe-to-toe with any prospective aggressor/invader and trade punches. Puhlease. The best equipped and trained soldier in the world will never be a match for an army.

We only need to ensure that we have an airforce and navy capable of taking out the Indonesia Navy.

And besides, we can't recruit enough military types to adequately staff our current resources, let alone a potential submarine and surface attack vessel force. I'd rather have tax cuts so I can buy sexier toys, rather than having the government do this in my stead.

Twofold, First we increase the pay and conditions of our armed forces, rather than shitting on them constantly as our government currently does. Second we reintroduce compulsory national service, requiring all 18-25 year olds to serve a minimum of 2 years in the armed forces. With the training they would received particular in the trades side of things we would drastically reduce the number of people taking our student loans to get civilian qualifications. I'd also abolish the longterm dole, allow maybe a 1-2 month period to cover people between jobs, beyond that they'd be in labour battallions building roads etc (and thus saving more money on our roading bills)

I think you've been reading too much Tom Clancy.

I'm not really a huge fan of Tom Clancey.. too Hollywood.

How would this be paid for?
We are stretching the budget to get this new support ship!

Having the toys is one thing, paying for them is another... or will the GE Money Genie come to our aid?

No, just cutting back un-needed expenditure.. Cutting benefits, abolishing NZ on air / arts funding, closing the ministries of maori affairs, womens affairs, pacific island affairs, and generally giving the PSA a heart attacks as I slashed the govt bureaucracy numbers and perks, curtalling wasteful tertiary spending (no more twilight golf courses or "Cool IT" courses paid for by the govt), making prisons turn a profit, or only a minimal loss (no more tv's, playstations, underfloor heating etc.. basic subsistence food and hard labour).. I could go on for hours, our government is chock full of unneeded PC handouts and bludging public servants.

[Swoop]

No, just cutting back un-needed expenditure.. Cutting benefits, abolishing NZ on air / arts funding, closing the ministries of maori affairs, womens affairs, pacific island affairs, and generally giving the PSA a heart attacks as I slashed the govt bureaucracy numbers and perks, curtalling wasteful tertiary spending (no more twilight golf courses or "Cool IT" courses paid for by the govt), making prisons turn a profit, or only a minimal loss (no more tv's, playstations, underfloor heating etc.. basic subsistence food and hard labour).. I could go on for hours, our government is chock full of unneeded PC handouts and bludging public servants.

Why the f*ck aren't you Prime Minister?

[Wolf]

Why the f*ck aren't you Prime Minister?

Because I control the explosive device wired into his skull should he ever try...

[Lias]

Why the f*ck aren't you Prime Minister?

I'm far too blunt and honest. I dont like lieing or swindling the public, and I tend to respond to a knife in a the back with a fist to the nose

[oldrider]

Why the f*ck aren't you Prime Minister?

Well, anything would be better than the embarrasing b***h that we have got now!

Lias makes some compelling points in his post. John.

[sAsLEX]

25mm that fires 200 rounds a minute...

Its not a war ship its a cargo carrier or Multi Role Vessel, its to suppliment the fleet as a whole.

Also in time of war most vessels get the extra armament as required.

Yeah......

"excuse me Grunt want to sit on the deck with your mistral? We aint got any real defences......"

and the aging P3's

How old are the B52s and when do they leave service

too true... well not the whale hugging hippie variety anyway.

I think we should have lots of big fuck off scarry guns.

Guns are old school! Don't see any new ships with 18 inchs anymore.

5 inch ERGM munitions maybe, but missiles are the new thing.

[Delerium]

Homework assignment: find out the % of GDP we spend on defence. Compare it to our allies.

step 2, find out the wages of typical soldiers airman and sailors.

[sAsLEX]

They may have been old, but, as an anti shipping attack aircraft, they were still good,the Macchi's were a great backup plane - and the crews and support staff were great - but - that's all gone now - would take 8-10 yrs to bring a new strike aircraft group up to that level of expertise and experience again.
As a Navy, we should be concentrating on robust patrolling of the EEZ, fisheries, etc, with deployment to the immediate environs - that means blue water capable ships, that don't need to be heavily armed. They're dealing mainly with fishing boats and freighters - a Frigate has a very short life expectancy in any serious battle situation, anyway and also need the ability to move stuff around quickly. Capability to work together with the Aussies is also a consideration.I think the way the Navy is heading is the right one for NZ's situation and bank balance - unless the country is prepared to spend 15% of it's GDP on defence, for the next 10 yrs!

A pity about the Airforce though.

Worked well enough in the Falklands...

And chumming up to Aussy is one thing, we need to get back on decent terms with the states so we have a real big friend should the shit hit the fan, ie like Australia have done.

Its not really.. especially when they say the have X amount of millions in surplus... that didn't get out tax break...

However.. I will agree there isn't a need to have what "Lias" wants... but will agree that we need a front line first strike air force...

And to say that the old skyhawks were never used in anger or fired a live round in anger or armed conflict... errr in my eyes thats a good thing means they were doing there job

yeah they did, off Taranaki.

[Chrislost]

You cannot be serious? "Invasion" by whom? Fiji? Australia? The United States of America?

And the rest of your shopping list assumes that we are going to put ourselves in a position where we will stand toe-to-toe with any prospective aggressor/invader and trade punches. Puhlease. The best equipped and trained soldier in the world will never be a match for an army.

And besides, we can't recruit enough military types to adequately staff our current resources, let alone a potential submarine and surface attack vessel force. I'd rather have tax cuts so I can buy sexier toys, rather than having the government do this in my stead.

I think you've been reading too much Tom Clancy.

think indonesia(as soon as USA is too bogged down) china etc etc you stupid old fart

[sAsLEX]

Homework assignment: find out the % of GDP we spend on defence. Compare it to our allies.

step 2, find out the wages of typical soldiers airman and sailors.

One of the lowest in the developed world I would think you would find.


Starting salary for grunts and sailors around 16-19k. In Australia you train on 30k, move to 45k and within two years on ~60k.

I wont be on 60 till after around 7 years in the RNZN.

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

yeah they did, off Taranaki.

when.. and at what, or who... ???