The new HMNZS Canterbury

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

and whats all this peacekeeping shit?

Before you can be a peace keeper you need to have peace... before that you have the peace maker

[Delerium]

try having a read of straight from the horses ass by lee hughs, youll be in fits of laughter but it does raise some valid points on this issue.

A military force is capable of military action should the need arise... and is capable of peace keeping duties also. A peace keeping force is not capable of military operations.

The NZDF has been flat tack for a while now... the operational tempo is quite high. Lots of people.. not just army went to timor, and guess what, they are back there now. Afghanistan has been going on for a while now too. This is all openly available information to anybody that cares for it. Words to this effect where even stated on the SAS program on tv tonight.

Still being a serving member, it isnt my place to comment on govt policy and defence decision. But I can state what is happening at the moment. A conisiderable amount of equipment upgrades are in the works at the moment.

[Indiana_Jones]

I just think our 'defence' force couldn't hold back anyone really. Our peace keeping work is great etc, an I have nothing but respect for the people in the forces.

I can't remember who it was (Phil goth I think), but he said when talking about us scrapping the sky hawks "Well we've had them for x amount of years and we've never needed them, so we're getting rid of them"

.........Hello, it's like saying, oh I havn't used this helmet in a while, I won't ride with it today

-Indy

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

I can't remember who it was (Phil goth I think), but he said when talking about us scrapping the sky hawks "Well we've had them for x amount of years and we've never needed them, so we're getting rid of them"

.........Hello, it's like saying, oh I havn't used this helmet in a while, I won't ride with it today

too true... too true.

[R6_kid:Me]

but you dont know the likeliness that you will crash that day... Indonesia has to get through (or go around) Australia before we need to worry.

Much research and analysis goes into government decision making (apparently!)

[Wolf]

Wake up and smell the roses, like it or not, we need "Georgie boy" more than he needs us, despite what the socialists tell you!

Only need the World has for "georgie-boy" is to serve as fertiliser for said roses.

I understand that after a few months of decomposition we should get a good crop so I think he should be started on that process as soon as possible.

The world has no need for monsters and GW is one of the biggest.

It's not just "socialists" that can spot a war-mongering, expansionist megalomaniac who does not value the lives of his own citizens - we Centrists can spot tyrannical despots just as easily - at both ends of the "Left/Right" spectrum.

Lets see: Invade a country, when the troops start getting slaughtered by the partisans within that country, propose sending in more to die there while also looking around the region for other countries to invade and control. And if a major natural disaster occurs back home while this is going on, don't let that distract you from the war effort and dreams of global domination.

I do not in the least agree with most of Clark's crap but I do agree with her policy on not siding with the Bush Administration. Under the National Party, it'd be our brave lads becoming cannon fodder to feed Bush's war machine - the various pro-Bush cock-suckers in the upper echelons of the National Party have made that perfectly clear.

The Labour Party is a pack of non-childbearing fuckwits who want to control every aspect of our family lives and National is a bunch of pansy soft-cocks that need to cosy-up to the School Bully to feel safe and warm - we need a decent political party that puts the needs of New Zealand - defence, economic stability etc - first. And I don't mean one that puts the needs of Winston Fecking Peters first.

I think we do need to focus our military ability on policing our EEZ. Stop and seize any vessel poaching in our waters, deport the crew and invite the boat's owners over to watch it being cut apart as scrap to defray the costs of its seizure. Teach the world to fuck with our sovereignty at their peril.

And the next terrorists we catch can be sent home in a large cardboard box cushioned by human excrement - not sent to a fucking tropical island.

[oldrider]

Only need the World has for "georgie-boy" is to serve as fertiliser for said roses.

I understand that after a few months of decomposition we should get a good crop so I think he should be started on that process as soon as possible.

The world has no need for monsters and GW is one of the biggest.

It's not just "socialists" that can spot a war-mongering, expansionist megalomaniac who does not value the lives of his own citizens - we Centrists can spot tyrannical despots just as easily - at both ends of the "Left/Right" spectrum.

Lets see: Invade a country, when the troops start getting slaughtered by the partisans within that country, propose sending in more to die there while also looking around the region for other countries to invade and control. And if a major natural disaster occurs back home while this is going on, don't let that distract you from the war effort and dreams of global domination.

I do not in the least agree with most of Clark's crap but I do agree with her policy on not siding with the Bush Administration. Under the National Party, it'd be our brave lads becoming cannon fodder to feed Bush's war machine - the various pro-Bush cock-suckers in the upper echelons of the National Party have made that perfectly clear.

The Labour Party is a pack of non-childbearing fuckwits who want to control every aspect of our family lives and National is a bunch of pansy soft-cocks that need to cosy-up to the School Bully to feel safe and warm - we need a decent political party that puts the needs of New Zealand - defence, economic stability etc - first. And I don't mean one that puts the needs of Winston Fecking Peters first.

I think we do need to focus our military ability on policing our EEZ. Stop and seize any vessel poaching in our waters, deport the crew and invite the boat's owners over to watch it being cut apart as scrap to defray the costs of its seizure. Teach the world to fuck with our sovereignty at their peril.

And the next terrorists we catch can be sent home in a large cardboard box cushioned by human excrement - not sent to a fucking tropical island.

I didn't say I liked George W and I didn't say I was a National supporter, I just said how much we needed the Americans support, like it or not.

As for the Indonesians being a threat, who was it that we were lining up against in East Timor, where our territorial forces were poking them in the eye!

Now was that a really smart thing to do when you think about it, the Indonesians were almost united about East Timor and that's the last thing we need, united Indonesians looking for a skirmish that they think they can win! John.

[sAsLEX]

Yip, and Iv been in for 7 years and im on 34 grand. although I changed trade so iv only got 4 years senority and im in a different service.

Sounds like you got shafted.

Not forgeting the NZ itself has possibly got oil... especially southland, stewart island and southern basin...

Umm Taranaki has a fair bit, actually in production at the mo too

mainly tradition, to honour the past vessels to rebear the name.

Hence the Upham not being allowed to be reused....

Much research and analysis goes into government decision making (apparently!)

Oh boy your are dilusional.

[sAsLEX]

I would like to remind people that 25 years ago to the day (my time) Argentina surrendered in the first major Naval conflict in rather a few years.

The year 1982, the year after a major review that wanted the severe downsizing of the Navy as to use Gareth's words "they never used". It is by chance the LPDs were kept to make landing a possibility, and now look at their amphibious ability! Another point was the Land Attack air role was lost with the old Ark Royal going so that meant only the ski jumping harriers in theatre.


The outcome of the Falklands was a dithering political career of Thatcher was saved and the Navy gained many supporters, it also opened the common mans eyes to what a proper Navy can achieve anywhere in the world!

and in the infamous words of my PTI

"Fail to prepare, Prepare to Fail!"

[mdooher]

Yeah......

Guns are old school! Don't see any new ships with 18 inchs anymore.

5 inch ERGM munitions maybe, but missiles are the new thing.

Yep dead right. Any war ship should be be for one thing...war. It neads missiles, lots of missiles they do all of the real work. But nothing say fuck off like great big scarry guns. They say to tin pot leaders like the Fiji fella "Fuck off cos we can paste your entire coastline or whatever and we can do it cheap." Shells cost a lot less than missiles and will still work well from 20 miles away

[Flatcap]

Much research and analysis goes into government decision making (apparently!)

Yes - Helen had a look at Fiji and decided that the military here needed to be abolished

[Swoop]

I would like to remind people that 25 years ago to the day (my time) Argentina surrendered in the first major Naval conflict in rather a few years.

it also opened the common mans eyes to what a proper Navy can achieve anywhere in the world!

The disgusting thing is that the light blue told the world that THEY won the war.
A couple of Vulcan raids that did ZERO damage apart from ONE bomb making a hole in the runway at Stanley(which the argies patched up each night so it could be used - then made it look like it was "still a hole" during the day so to confuse the Brits). Later in the war there were several RAF pilots seconded to the carriers.
Who took the majority of the medals and limelight? Fuc*ing light blue!

Thank goodness that lessons were well learnt from this "first modern war".

[sAsLEX]

Yep dead right. Any war ship should be be for one thing...war. It neads missiles, lots of missiles they do all of the real work. But nothing say fuck off like great big scarry guns. They say to tin pot leaders like the Fiji fella "Fuck off cos we can paste your entire coastline or whatever and we can do it cheap." Shells cost a lot less than missiles and will still work well from 20 miles away

Yes right on both counts NGS has been used to good effect in most modern conflicts.

The Falklands and the sister ship to our frigates HMS Anzac was lobbing rounds into Iraq in support of troops there.

Missiles are coming down in cost, hell the New Zealand chap http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/ there made one.......

Thank goodness that lessons were well learnt from this "first modern war".

And the war stopped the attrition of forces they are starting to do now again 25 years later.....

[Hitcher]

The disgusting thing is that the light blue told the world that THEY won the war.

If by the "light blue" you mean the RAF, they played a significantly greater role in the Falklands conflict that the scant credit you've given them here. Don't forget that Argentine A4s and Mirages had free reign over the Falklands from their bases in Argentina, and much is owed to the competence of both the British Harriers and their pilots in negating this considerable air support advantage.

[sAsLEX]

If by the "light blue" you mean the RAF, they played a significantly greater role in the Falklands conflict that the scant credit you've given them here. Don't forget that Argentine A4s and Mirages had free reign over the Falklands from their bases in Argentina, and much is owed to the competence of both the British Harriers and their pilots in negating this considerable air support advantage.

This is true. The Harriers kept the Mirages out of the conflict for the majority of the time, due to the AIM 9? missile which outclassed the other craft. Where were they based though? And how well did the long range assets do?


One interesting note is that due to having ex RN Type 42s the Argies knew to come in low against them as the defences were useless against a low flying target, they also forgot to use short fuses as most of the weapons did not have time to arm from that height.

Another fact was that radar at that time could not pick the planes up from the background land that they came across which lead to the advent of Moving Target Indication and doppler and a bunch of other radar techniques.


The list of lessons learnt in that war are long and numerous. And Hitcher might need to infract himself for keeping this thread off topic........