Would you give up your Thou' for an 800cc MotoGP rep?

[slinky]

id go for an 800.

[xwhatsit]

I'm not going to vote, as I'm a lowly little 250 boy, but the amount of people you hear going on about how the 1000cc RRRR bikes are pretty much unsuitable for the roads (at least in this country), you'd think perhaps a drop in capacity wouldn't hurt.

As far as I understand it, the GSXR750 is pretty much a hangover from the old days of when the 750s were the cutting edge; the 600 and the 1000 are the kings these days. Yet you see a hell of a lot of the GSXR750s on the roads. Is there perhaps a good balance there? Some of the agility and light weight of the 600s, yet with enough torque to make up the deficit felt with the peaky 600s?

Perhaps there's room for an even sharper 750; MotoGP-inspired 800cc RRRRs.

Like I said, I'm completely unqualified to comment, but if you're a torque-monster, then perhaps a big GSX1400/CB1300 is more suitable? Or do the 1000cc RRRRs fill that niche so perfectly?

I don't know if I'd ever want to own a 1000cc RRRR, as I like lightweight nimble things. Riding a GSXR600 around the block was enjoyable, it felt ponderous but was flickable enough. I doubt a 1000cc would have enough of that for me to buy it. However, a GSXR/CBR800RR might just be throwable and nimble enough, while appealing to that need to own the `top dog', that it would be able to grab my imaginary money.

[skelstar]

Woo...good thread guys.

At the end of the day its going to come down to what they look like for a lot of folk. If they have the cool little lippy hugger and short seat that the Honda MotoGP bikes have then I'd be in!

Would be cool if the designers could be a little less conservative on some of the styling in one of the classes of bikes. 800cc seems to fit the bill AFAIC.

[Big Dave]

but the amount of people you hear going on about how the 1000cc RRRR

Probably guilty.

Unsuitable is not the right word.

I don't enjoy them much, simply because 'I can resist anything but temptation' Wilde, O.

If I get on a fireblade - I nail it. Somewhere out the back of nowhere usually, but what experienced biker can resist - i asks ya?

If you do track days and stuff - then get a replica or whatever. All good.

If like the vast majority, you ride on the public byways all the time then why have 300kph? You don't even need 200.

Sooner of later the split second longer you leave it in first or second is likely to cost you six months suspension and then to keep a licence all you do is idle about - 3,000rpm short of the power band.

Nah, give me a mid power something that you have to ride and can nail it occasionally.

I just gave back a Triumph Thruxton. 70hp. Hold it flat out in first ,second and a bit of third and it still won't draw any heat, and is much less likely to kill you.

That's me.

I'd love a replica in the shed for track days and giving McKay the larn. Ask me to test the bikes and I can do it dispassionately and scientific like and that and all and am in awe of the teknologikal stuff.

But not for my daily ride.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Aren't the majority of Motogp bikes built around a different cylinder firing order? Intrinsically 2 pairs of parallel twins bolted together. This, so I'm led to believe, increases the available of torque from the smaller displacement engine - it may be a similar torque spread compared with a thou'. I'd love a ZZ-RR, RCV-212V or M1 with lights and indicators! Don't know about the Duke or Suzi, and certainly not the Kenny Roberts abomination.

[inlinefour]

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Honda thou dropped for an 800 with the same (peak) power, and a 155kg chassis. It'll somewhat instantly make the thous antiques, plus they'll get the bonus of screwing Suzuki over (are they going to keep the GSXR750 name alive once the world heads 800?) and keeping the greenies happy to boot (they don't know any better, they'll just see a 20% decrease in capacity).

how many 1000cc owner can actually can ride them to the limit? Or to the point how many would be able to ride a 800cc balls out? I loved the CBR600RR as it was plenty fast enough and it was not that often that I got to ring its nuts out. However just before my accident I put on some Metzeller M1s on the bike, what a farking difference! I suspect that if Id been riding the CBR for much longer with the way it was set up my ability to ring it out and potentially loose my licience would have increased. Never mind nice still having the licience and knowing I used to be able to do it...

[imdying]

And yet, they still sell in great numbers. I agree on the 600 point, being able to screw it made it more fun to ride for me... I think I'd have misssed that on a thou. A nice buzzy motor gives more of the gp hero experience, if you see what I mean?

In the end, it might not even be in the hands of the manufacturers as to what we get... legislation might kill the hyper bikes before any market forces or whatever come into play.

[Deviant Esq]

Suzuki already have the head start on them with the GSXR750. Adding another 45-50cc would be a piece of piss for them, they could do it over night. And part of the appeal of the thou's is the torque curve, which the 800cc machine won't have.

It depends on the engine IMO. Most of the Moto GP teams use inline four cylinder engines, but Honda uses a V4, which they already have in the VFR800. I'd say they could quite easily change the tune of that engine to suit a race replica, and pop it in a possible VFR800RR.

As far as I understand it, the GSXR750 is pretty much a hangover from the old days of when the 750s were the cutting edge; the 600 and the 1000 are the kings these days. Yet you see a hell of a lot of the GSXR750s on the roads. Is there perhaps a good balance there?

There is. In the past the GSXR750 never really sold in the same sort of numbers as the 600 or the 1000, but Suzuki have been rewarded for sticking with it - in the UK at least (a good base market to work off), the GSXR750 outsells the 600 and the 1000 combined. From what I understand it sells so many mainly because it's as flickable as the 600, it handles like it's on rails... but more power. It hasn't got too much more hp than the 600 but it has a sizeable increase in torque which makes all the difference. For those that don't want to have to wring the neck of a 600 but don't want the kind of power the 1000 puts out, the 750 is a near perfect compromise... which is why it sells so well.

[SPman]

Apparently next years Fireblade is a 1000 V4 with R6 style exhaust - looks good in the photos.

Personally - I'd go for an 800 - although the 1000's have a torque advantage

[imdying]

I'd say they could quite easily change the tune of that engine to suit a race replica, and pop it in a possible VFR800RR

Ahhhh, yes please!

From what I understand it sells so many mainly because it's as flickable as the 600, it handles like it's on rails.

Probably their history helps too... everyone has had one at some stage. I'm sure Honda would like to finish that line off

[Mental Trousers]

I'd be very, very tempted if there was an R8 on the market. Who wouldn't want the 600 with a 30% increase in displacement?? It'd weigh a wee bit more but not like the thou's. And more importantly the rotational mass is a lot lower than the thousands.
I hope the big bike companies do start putting out road going 800's. It could only be a good thing.

[imdying]

World Superbike has increased the capacity for twins, I cannot see the market following motogp capacity trends. I'm quite sure the Jap manufacturers will stick with 1000 multis for a while yet...cheaper to produce power too me thinks

I agree on both points, I believe they'll stick to the thous at least for now, and a bigger motor must be easier to get more power out of (slower moving pistons requiring less techy metal if nothing else). Do you think perhaps this poll shows that the market would indeed love to have a motogp sized and styled bike though?

[Kendog]

Yet you see a hell of a lot of the GSXR750s on the roads. Is there perhaps a good balance there? Some of the agility and light weight of the 600s, yet with enough torque to make up the deficit felt with the peaky 600s?

Exactly right, plus what Deviant said.

It really is a great bike to ride

[JayRacer37]

Yea, though a GP rep would be awesome, I don't recon they would/will do it. firstly, they can't do a true rep using the GP stuff, cause that breaks ALL the prototype only laws for MotoGP.
Secondly, as soon as you put lights, road panels, etc etc, steel brakes for road use, road tyres, softer suspension to deal with the bumps...on the bikes, all you have is a bored out GSX-R750, or scaled down thou. they are alreay building the 600's and thous to as race rep as they can, for the production racing classes, they can't get any more racey on the road, till there is new technology, as witnessed by twin piped GSXR1000's.
What wold be REAL trick would be a track-day/race ready bike sold, that doesnt have to comply to emmision laws, or have the ability to ride slowly on the road, and in variying conditions...a bike that would be delivered on slicks or race tyres, with a race set up, and cast iorn at least brakes, lightweight rims that dont need to be strenthed for going up and down curbs...

A bike a little like the SP-2 basic racer from HRC a few years ago, except more racey...like Kenny Roberts Fireblade engined GP chassis bike!!

[N4CR]

hmmm..... tough question. i do love the easyness of a thou to ride... farken torque for africa. getting onto the 07 zx6 made me go wtf it's a 250 then power hits and it's time to change gear... thou, power hits and it keeps going. gears are not as important.

in saying that i have had so much fun on 250's and 600's on the road cus you can thrash them in alot of places (600's to a lesser extent..). thrashing thous takes a rather empty and special road, special conditions, times and to be honest i've only done it for prolonged periods probably twice and come back with the edges ripped off and a nice tyre bill in the coming month. in saying that it's probably the best experience i've ever had on a bike..

an 800 would in the same situation probably be as quick or quicker if raped in power constantly and corners chucked in for a good mix, but anywhere else in engine range the thou should just leap ahead with the tq advantage. so maybe the 800 would be less fun than a thou without the torque? an as peaky 600 with same power as a thou probably so similar long thou gears so you can't use the rev range without loosing bits of paper that say you can be on the road.... then there is not as much power down low to have fun with so you're thrashing it to get anywhere and any power...... that's if you want to ride vigoroursurously. thou you can ride at decent speeds with lazy gears and lower revs...

gah... i ramble and talk ****. next post....