Scooters versus motorcycles

[kaz]

Thanks Dyers. That makes sense about the wheel size and potholes. But how is there more tyre on the road? Wouldn't the surface area be similar (unless the width was greater on a bigger wheel)

Interesting comment re: the GN250 too. Yeah I guess they can't be too bad if there's heaps of them around, I see them all the time.

[delusionz]

Would just like to add, I believe the "power to get out of trouble" argument is somewhat redundant. When I used to ride a 50cc scooter I experienced at least 1 sometimes 2 or 3 near misses a day in the bus lanes with people trying to turn onto the road without looking right, if I had been riding a faster machine I probably would have been ahead of where I was at the time of the near miss (ie, smacked from my left side into a car on my right side or in other words sandwiched in a T bone if not being the T bone).

This is not to say more power on tap is not justifiable, It's just to say you have to be alot more responsible and a little less reckless as you tend to get on a 50cc scooter (ie, full throttle or nothing style riding)

[Delphinus]

Remember Kaz, at the end of the day you really just have to ride them all and decide for yourself.
Definitly take a couple out, starting with the GN250, and the FXR150. You should be able to find a couple of these at the dealers. That will give you more of an idea of what style of bike you will be riding... and having the ability to go for a cruise on the motorway/country is a mega bonus.

Bigger wheels? Definite bonus, when riding scooters over in raro, urrgh they were horrible after riding a motorbike. Just the difference in stability.
Remember that when a wheel is spinning it acts as a gyroscope. The bigger the wheel the more gyroscopic effect (harder to fall over) it has, making the bike more stable.
As for more contact on the road, I guess if you think of a ferris wheel, a wheel that size definitly has more contact on the road than a scooter wheel, that therefore proves that a larger wheel = more contact. Also when progressive braking, when the bike sits down in the forks, more pressure is applied where the rubber contacts with the road, this "flattens" the contact patch, meaning more rubber on road with a bigger wheel means more braking power.

Hope that all makes sense and is correct. Just trying to remember what they taught us at the RRRS course I did a while back.

[avgas]

As fun as scooters are. There is no supplement for gears on 2 wheels. Its like comparing BMX's and mountainbikes.
Never became a fan of gear'd scooters either - felt awkward with gripshift.

[kaz]

Hi delusionz, yeah I am often suspicious of the "more power to get out of trouble" idea. I wonder why nobody mentions applying your brakes skillfully as an excellent way out of trouble. Or using anticipation. Those things have certainly got me out of trouble a few times. But I guess those things just don't sound as cool.

[kaz]

Hi Delpinus, ok I think I get the tyre-on-road thing better now, thanks, especially where braking flattens the surface against the road. I like the gyroscope idea too. I saw that Kymco Bug make a 16 inch wheel scooter (the Espresso) and that might be interesting to ride (except I think the dealer is in Christchurch).

[Macktheknife]

The other issues might be around cornering ability, ground clearance, tyre choice, wind profile, etc. There is also the 'fun' factor, scooters are fun to ride, bikes are even more fun to ride but this is not always welcome to some people.
Kaz, the most important thing is that you enjoy what you ride and it gives you room to build your skills.
Try a few things and see what rings your bell.

[Macktheknife]

Hi delusionz, yeah I am often suspicious of the "more power to get out of trouble" idea. I wonder why nobody mentions applying your brakes skillfully as an excellent way out of trouble. Or using anticipation. Those things have certainly got me out of trouble a few times. But I guess those things just don't sound as cool.

The power out of trouble thing is often misrepresented.
Anticipation and road awareness are great things to use, as is good braking technique, but all must be practised to get maximum effect.
Motorbikes have 3 areas of difference to cages, acceleration, braking and handling. Any 1 of these can get you out of trouble, knowing which one to use in the situation is the key, the most notable difference is in acceleration, which is why most people talk about it.
And it is true to say that it can save you a lot of trouble when used wisely, it can also get you into more trouble when done poorly. Rider courses such as RRRS and mentors can really help in learning and practising these things.

[delusionz]

The power out of trouble thing is often misrepresented.
Anticipation and road awareness are great things to use, as is good braking technique, but all must be practised to get maximum effect.
Motorbikes have 3 areas of difference to cages, acceleration, braking and handling. Any 1 of these can get you out of trouble, knowing which one to use in the situation is the key, the most notable difference is in acceleration, which is why most people talk about it.
And it is true to say that it can save you a lot of trouble when used wisely, it can also get you into more trouble when done poorly. Rider courses such as RRRS and mentors can really help in learning and practising these things.

Can't agree more.

[MisterD]

Hi delusionz, yeah I am often suspicious of the "more power to get out of trouble" idea. I wonder why nobody mentions applying your brakes skillfully as an excellent way out of trouble. Or using anticipation. Those things have certainly got me out of trouble a few times. But I guess those things just don't sound as cool.

There's a difference between "power to get out of trouble" and the sheer ability to keep up with the rest of the traffic on the road, which restricted 50cc'ers just don't have....you want to spend your entire day being overtaken and cut-up by B-trains?

[kaz]

MisterD, I can tell your comment is meant to be helpful but unfortunately I don't know what it means. Spending my entire day...? (I just ride 7km to work). Being "cut up by B-trains" - what is that? (btw my current scooter is not restricted and keeps up with the traffic ok).

[SHELRACING]

Hey thanks everyone, your comments are really helpful. Dave Lobster, that sounds like a good idea.

My partner has a Vespa ET4 150 and I already ride that sometimes so I know I like a bigger scooter.

To Klingon and swbarnett: the riding position comment is useful. I notice that even on the Vespa, I'm on a bit less of a "perch" than I am on the Mio. I certainly like the idea of being "one with the machine" - especially since I love to really lean into those Ngaio Gorge corners.

If you love leaning around corners then get a bike. GN's are certainly not the fastest bikes around.
When choosing a bike I went into the shops and test rode a few I liked the look of. I settled on a Honda CB400 Hyper V-Tech.
Since then I have gone for a sportsbike because I much prefer the riding position.
Have a ride on a Honda VTR 250.

[The Lone Rider]

Thanks Dyers. That makes sense about the wheel size and potholes. But how is there more tyre on the road? Wouldn't the surface area be similar (unless the width was greater on a bigger wheel)

I was thinking width mainly, but thats just because I find my current bike that has fat tires (not quite M109 fat though) more comfortable over some roads compared to the other bike I owned.

If you want to hoon around corners at high speed, get a sports/upright bike. Cruisers have low clearance generally. If you want to lay back and have the wind in your hair (uh.. facial hair) get a cruiser.

Try all bikes. Its fun. Even if you don't want to buy them. I always loved the look of choppers but I tried one a week ago and it was very uncomftable. Likewise with sports bikes. I don't like my family jewels crunched and don't like feeling like I'm trying to take a crap while leaning forward and holding a towel rack. But you won't know what you like until you try.

And I don't like scooters.. tried one. Couldn't ride it properly for the life of me.. having my legs centered and my knees at my chin because I'm tall lol

Having power to save yourself even when most of the time braking is all you need, is better then not having it and then ending in a situation where your response was the get the fuck out of the way but didn't have the means to move at the split second.

[MisterD]

MisterD, I can tell your comment is meant to be helpful but unfortunately I don't know what it means. Spending my entire day...? (I just ride 7km to work). Being "cut up by B-trains" - what is that? (btw my current scooter is not restricted and keeps up with the traffic ok).

A b-train is one of those fucking great trucks that bends in the middle...they do considerably more than 50kph. Personally, I wouldn't ride anything that couldn't hit 100

[moT]

DONT GET A GN250 THEY ARE THE LAMEST BIKES IN THE WORLD THEY DO A 20SEC QUARTER MILE!!! get a sports 4stroke 250 eg: CBR250 or a 2 stroke 250 eg:NSR 250 or a 2 stroke 150 eg: RG150 yeah.. u wont regret it