ABS not bad

[candor]

They reckon it doesn't reduce car crashes but is way better for bikes.

Kramlich and Sporner (Krauts) looked at 910 mc accidents. Of 610 involving cars 65 percent of riders braked before collision and one in five came off.
In 93 percent of cases abs would have avoided or reduced severity of crash.

Of 300 single bike crashes of which eighty percent were on corners half the riders binned. Forty percent of them would have avoided crash or reduced severity with abs.

ABS on all bikes would reduce crash fatalities by 8-10 percent not least as it protects against car misbehaviour

The Rosebud Working paper 4 of 2005 said this is a cost benefit ratio of between 1.1 and 11.7 (acceptable to excellent) depending on how much of a tax break might be offered to riders of cheaper bikes for fitting abs.

With ACC claims on all vehicle crashes up phenomenally might be worth a hint.

[MD]

I find it hard to believe the statement that ABS doesn't help in cars? How many nose to tails alone would have been avoided by ABS. I've tested panic stops in my car for fun in the wet, in the dry, on straights and into bends. It's in bends that ABS gives a car driver a big advantage to brake and corner at the same time. Much safer in my opinion.
On the F800S I have panic tested in heavy rain and it is amazingly effective. A learner with ABS in the wet would out stop 99% of very experienced riders. It's that good. For me the votes aren't in yet on whether or not I want ABS in the dry. Luckily the front hardly ever activates in the dry. About the only time I have triggered the front ABS was deliberately trying to see if I could stoppie.. , shattered balls! It releases the braking at the point when the rear is about to lift, then a split second later SLAM, yelp !- it's like hitting a brick wall!..using your testicles to soften the impact.
The rear ABS I could do without. Only because I like to lightly rear brake into bends to settle the bike especially in fast mode. That means the rear wheel can get light under hard front braking and add a small rise/bump as you reach a corner and the ABS can unexpectly release your rear brake..the added fright is that the pedal falls through the floor, so to speak, giving you a tiny wee oh shit moment of doubt. This is a minor drawback and it's easy to ride around it once you know when to expect it.
Certainly when I read some of the new riders on here describing slow speed offs around town or in the wet, I would say ABS could have prevented many spills for learners.
The technology will only get better so expect to see more bikes coming out with ABS.

[SARGE]

i hated my ABS on my FJ.. couldnt disconnect it fast enough.. saved myself 10 kg's in weight when i yanked the ABS pump and such too..

[oldrider]

i hated my ABS on my FJ.. couldnt disconnect it fast enough.. saved myself 10 kg's in weight when i yanked the ABS pump and such too..

You "yanked" it! Is that what Yanks do? Just can't help yourself eh! John.

[SARGE]

You "yanked" it! Is that what Yanks do? Just can't help yourself eh! John.

i tried to "Kiwi" it but the instruction manual was all mis-spelled and the grammar was horrible

[inlinefour]

They reckon it doesn't reduce car crashes but is way better for bikes.

Kramlich and Sporner (Krauts) looked at 910 mc accidents. Of 610 involving cars 65 percent of riders braked before collision and one in five came off.
In 93 percent of cases abs would have avoided or reduced severity of crash.

Of 300 single bike crashes of which eighty percent were on corners half the riders binned. Forty percent of them would have avoided crash or reduced severity with abs.

ABS on all bikes would reduce crash fatalities by 8-10 percent not least as it protects against car misbehaviour

The Rosebud Working paper 4 of 2005 said this is a cost benefit ratio of between 1.1 and 11.7 (acceptable to excellent) depending on how much of a tax break might be offered to riders of cheaper bikes for fitting abs.

With ACC claims on all vehicle crashes up phenomenally might be worth a hint.

At the end of the day, if your going to crash, there is little that can be done to stop it. However I have ABS in my station wagon and its ability to stop is awesome. I allways liked having independant brakes on a bike, must be a personal preference thing?

[jonbuoy]

I thought a decent driver could stop quicker without ABS? ABS lets you steer and brake at the same time - not so?

[Zukin]

I have the best of both worlds

ABS that I can turn off with a switch on my dash, great on the road after you get used to the pulsing action in the brakes, but on the gravel it is a must turn off thing!!

My thoughts

[NZsarge]

i tried to "Kiwi" it but the instruction manual was all mis-spelled and the grammar was horrible

Ahh... But by "yanking" it you did "Kiwi" it

[terbang]

ABS doesn't improve the braking, it just manages it better by not allowing a lockup by intervening between the brake unit and a heavy footed/handed rider. A current and well practised rider (like on a track perhaps) will more than likely do a better job but then if tootling along on a sunday with your brain in semi neutral and the need for a sudden stop arises. Then maybe ABS would be a handy thing. I have often figured that ABS would be a good thing on the rear brake (for a road touring bike) as that is the one that we (well me anyway) tend to lock up the most when we need to hit the picks in a hurry. The front wheel, with weight transferring onto it during braking, is much more manageable and is less likely to skid in the dry (check the stoppie guys out). So why not both wheels for the wet?
however I have never ridden a bike with ABS though I have cars that have it and often wonder if it can give motorists (especialy those F@rks that tailgate) a false sense of security.
Its standard fit on transport aircraft though it is more complex. In an emergency stop you just stand on the brakes and let the antiskid sort it out. But it is still only coverting kinetic energy into heat at the best possible rate and once again, it is only better management giving the pilot the capacity to think about and deal with other stuff. It won't stop a runway overrun if you have stuffed yer landing in the first place!

[vifferman]

I find it hard to believe the statement that ABS doesn't help in cars?

The reason is that people who know they have ABS tend to act as if it's a miracle thing, so they follow other cars too closely. Also, when they panic brake, they don't stomp on the pedal hard enough, or let it off when they feel it pulse as it's about to lockup. Lastly, they don't realise that the biggest advantage of ABS is that because the tyres retain their traction, they can still manouevre while braking hard, so they fail to do that too.

Experts say that if you have ABS you need to practice emergency braking: brake VERY hard, and practice swerving.

[scumdog]

The reason is that people who know they have ABS tend to act as if it's a miracle thing, so they follow other cars too closely. Also, when they panic brake, they don't stomp on the pedal hard enough, or let it off when they feel it pulse as it's about to lockup. Lastly, they don't realise that the biggest advantage of ABS is that because the tyres retain their traction, they can still manouevre while braking hard, so they fail to do that too.

Experts say that if you have ABS you need to practice emergency braking: brake VERY hard, and practice swerving.

Bugger all people who drive a car with ABS have ever experienced it working - except maybe when braking and turning into a gravel driveway etc.

Saying "It gives them too much confidence and they'll follow too close" is a myth - most of them dawdle along without a thought that they have ABS - let alone that it may help them stop in a shorter distance.

The same argument came out re seatbelts when they were first introduced: "It will make people take more risks because they will think they won't get hurt"

The idiots who take risks in either situation will do so regardless - even if they are driving an 'as facory' 1930's Austin.

Next time you're talking to a person who is not car-orientated just ask them what ABS is and how it works.

[discotex]

Saying "It gives them too much confidence and they'll follow too close" is a myth - most of them dawdle along without a thought that they have ABS - let alone that it may help them stop in a shorter distance.

It's all about misjudging risk vs skill vs reflexes. Same goes for speeding, driving drunk, wearing shorts on a bike, bushwalking in a bikini in winter, etc, etc. People will always do stupid stuff. The only one that I do think makes a little difference is SUV's. Sitting up higher makes you feel further away as your line of sight is clear so you tend to close up to the car behind. Whenever I've driven a 4x4 it took some effort to remember that the 2sec rule starts at the car in front of me not the car in front of me.

About the only time I have triggered the front ABS was deliberately trying to see if I could stoppie.. , shattered balls! It releases the braking at the point when the rear is about to lift, then a split second later SLAM, yelp !- it's like hitting a brick wall!..using your testicles to soften the impact.

Ahhhh I see. ABS stands for Anti Baby System..

[MrMelon]

There was a study done in Germany I think where half the cabs were fitted with ABS, and the other half without. It turned out there wasn't any statistical difference in the proportion of accidents involving ABS cabs and non-ABS cabs. The ones with ABS ended up driving faster and taking more risks because they had ABS! The effect is known as Risk Homeostasis and can be seen in other populations.

There's a bit more about the Munich taxi cab experiment here: http://psyc.queensu.ca/target/chapter07.html

Oops knew i'd seen it somewhere before...
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...sk+homeostasis

[SARGE]

i have ridden a few bikes in my day .. most of them WITHOUT ABS.. i find that i brake faster and better without it .. i 'trail brake' using the rear when i am in sports mode anyway and ABS just screws with it