Flu "pandemic"

[Hans]

I'm all for the global warming thread. Start it already...

[Mikkel]

im interested in continuing the climate change discussion but it needs its own thread really, however I will say, that human activity doesnt and hasnt encouraged or promoted climate change at all.
There is a list of 31000 scientists many PHD who have signed a petition stating denying that man is responsible for global warming including 9000 with PHDs who suggest carbon dioxide and methane gases are actually bennificial for the enviroment, there is no similiar list with even 500 scientists suggesting the opposite.

Just because 31,000 scientists sign a bloody petition doesn't make it fact mate. Also, a Ph.D. doesn't necessarily mean anything - e.g. a Ph.D. in history doesn't make you more qualified to comment upon climate change than anyone else... just like a Ph.D. in astrophysics doesn't make you an expert on welfare systems.
Here you are making statements about things you do not know, as if it was fact. That is a rather unreasonable approach.

Anyone who blindly denies that human activity has had - or indeed ever will - have an impact upon climate change without supporting evidence is a bloody fool no matter their qualification. Same goes for the people who cries "the sky is falling". It doesn't really matter whether you bury you head in the sand or have a go at playing chicken little - both approaches are ultimately unconstructive.

I am neither saying that human activity has a huge impact nor that it has a marginal impact upon climate change - all I am saying is that it is bloody important to know for sure! Reality is not about all or nothing - human activity must necessarily have an impact upon the climate - but we need to know the magnitude and direction of the impact.

[Quasievil]

Just because 31,000 scientists sign a bloody petition doesn't make it fact mate. Also, a Ph.D. doesn't necessarily mean anything - e.g. a Ph.D. in history doesn't make you more qualified to comment upon climate change than anyone else... just like a Ph.D. in astrophysics doesn't make you an expert on welfare systems.
Here you are making statements about things you do not know, as if it was fact. That is a rather unreasonable approach.

Anyone who blindly denies that human activity has had - or indeed ever will - have an impact upon climate change without supporting evidence is a bloody fool no matter their qualification. Same goes for the people who cries "the sky is falling". It doesn't really matter whether you bury you head in the sand or have a go at playing chicken little - both approaches are ultimately unconstructive.

I am neither saying that human activity has a huge impact nor that it has a marginal impact upon climate change - all I am saying is that it is bloody important to know for sure! Reality is not about all or nothing - human activity must necessarily have an impact upon the climate - but we need to know the magnitude and direction of the impact.

And neither does a ex vice president who makes a scare mongering movie which has been proven in the English high court to be factually incorrect. The fools in this subject are the one's who absorb the B.S that is raked from the few (and it is a few) who are busy promoting the "chicken little the sky is falling" agendas of the whole climate warming con to the governments of this world, and guess what here comes some new taxes.

ANYTHING in this world has two sides, if one side has a money agenda then look a bit deeper than the media hype, and in many cases you will find the mis truths, which in the case of the global warning con is riddled with floors and complete lack of science.

Global warming and the soon to come taxes is the Con of the century

[Mikkel]

ANYTHING in this world has two sides, if one side has a money agenda then look a bit deeper than the media hype, and in many cases you will find the mis truths, which in the case of the global warning con is riddled with floors and complete lack of science.

So the people being taxed doesn't have money and an agenda? Well in that case they wouldn't have anything to worry about... hmmm

Besides, Badjelly started the thread you requested. Some mod, somewhat randomly perhaps, decided to merge it with the "great global swindle" thread - so you should be doing a happy dance, you've got the mods on your side mate. (Not that, that actually helps the credibility of your claims - people are always whinging about tax rises AND the fact that welfare/social security/healthcare/etc/ad/nauseum/ isn't good enough.

[Winston001]

And neither does a ex vice president who makes a scare mongering movie which has been proven in the English high court to be factually incorrect.....

We've got another thread Quasi but just need to correct you on this fallacy. What happened is the judge ruled that An Inconvenient Truth should be shown in schools - the case was an attempt to stop it. He mentioned 9 points which were arguable. The judge was really ruling on how "Guidance Notes" for teachers should be provided to allow for more in depth discussion of these points in the classroom.

It was a film, not a scientific paper. It was aimed at getting people thinking.

[Badjelly]

The World Health Organisation has to make a decision on whether drug companies should switch their production from regular flu vaccine to pandemic vaccine.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news...ectid=10570971

Vaccine producers can only make one kind of flu vaccine at a time. WHO is likely to tell vaccine makers to switch to making one for the pandemic strain. But that decision means they have to guess whether the world will need pandemic vaccine more than it needs regular flu vaccine.

Why ask the experts? They should just do a poll on KB!

[Hitcher]

http://www.doihavepigflu.com/

[Maki]

Since this pig flu is less virulent than most common forms of flu, that routinely kill a number of people who are already weakened by other sicknesses or malnutrition, etc., then you have got to wonder what the big deal is?

I for one think the hysteria surrounding the pig flu has reached criminal proportions and those who have wasted time and money by quarantining people who have flu like symptoms and created red tape at airports should face the consequences of their stupid money and time wasting actions.



If the pig flu was really dangerous they did far too little. ALL international flights should have been stopped.

The pig flu is a damp squib so they did far too much.

Am I guilty of second guessing and being smart after the event. No.

Health authorities had two avenues open to them. One, consider this flu deadly and do everything in their power to stop it from spreading. That would mean stopping ALL international flights and quarantining everyone who may have been in contact with the flu. Two, consider the flu harmless and do nothing. They went the middle way which failed and would ALSO have failed if this was a deadly disease.

[Badjelly]

If the pig flu was really dangerous they did far too little. ALL international flights should have been stopped. The pig flu is a damp squib so they did far too much.

But 10 days ago there was reason to believe the pig flu might be really dangerous, given that it has killed quite a few people in Mexico. So at that time, with the knowledge they had then, should they have stopped all international flights? For how long?

[Maki]

But 10 days ago there was reason to believe the pig flu might be really dangerous, given that it has killed quite a few people in Mexico. So at that time, with the knowledge they had then, should they have stopped all international flights? For how long?

They didn't know it was really dangerous so they should not have done anything. If they reckoned that they knew it was really dangerous they should have stopped international flights, untill they reckoned it was not dangerous.

There is reason to believe many dangerous diseases are floating around. Quite a lot more people have died from them today than ever died from the pig flu in Mexico. Should we stop all international flights for that reason? HELL NO and we should not make a fuss at airports or quaranteen anybody either, untill there is a GOOD reason to do so.

All this media fueled hysteria has accomplised is to sell tamilflu, Which may have fatal side effects ("The Japanese health ministry also reported that between 2004 and 2007 out of a 128 serious cases of adverse psychological reactions, some 15 of the 128 reported cases attempted suicide with 8 of them dying in these attempts." http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...r-1676395.html), and waste time and money.

[Badjelly]

They didn't know it was really dangerous so they should not have done anything.

I disagree. I'm glad the NZ Government has made the efforts it has to limit the spread, just in case the disease turned out (turns out) to be more serious than it seems. I'm glad they didn't stop all international flights, because that would have caused huge disruption.

I might fall off my bike and hit my head, so I wear a helmet. I have fallen off a bike more times than I care to admit and the helmet never hit the ground once. I wear a helmet anyway.

[Maki]

I disagree. I'm glad the NZ Government has made the efforts it has to limit the spread, just in case the disease turned out (turns out) to be more serious than it seems. I'm glad they didn't stop all international flights, because that would have caused huge disruption.

I might fall off my bike and hit my head, so I wear a helmet. I have fallen off a bike more times than I care to admit and the helmet never hit the ground once. I wear a helmet anyway.

If this was in fact dangerous, then the "efforts" of the NZ government to limit the spread were woefully inadequate.

[Badjelly]

If this was in fact dangerous, then the "efforts" of the NZ government to limit the spread were woefully inadequate.

That's not my impression. How many cases have there been? Has anyone caught it [I]in/I] New Zealand? I tried to find answers to these questions on NZ news sites, but can't find anything recent. Based on my hazy recollections of what I heard on the news, I think the answers are: Around 10; None. [Edit: this is the best I can find: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/health/new...ectid=10570238. So that's 13 and none.]

But let's get this clear: you think it isn't dangerous so they shouldn't be doing anything. Is that correct? [Edit: Never mind. You've made it pretty clear that's what you do think.]

[Maki]

That's not my impression. How many cases have there been? Has anyone caught it [I]in/I] New Zealand? (I tried to find answers to these questions on NZ news sites, but can't find anything recent. Based on my hazy recollections of what I heard on the news, I think the answers are: Around 10; None.)

But let's get this clear: you think it isn't dangerous so they shouldn't be doing anything. Is that correct?

Good question. The answer is that nobody knows. In fact you yourself may have it. It is a flu, and the experience here is that it has less virulent symptoms than most common flu.

But let's get this clear: you think it isn't dangerous so they shouldn't be doing anything. Is that correct?
Yes, and if it was dangerous they are doing far too little. What they are doing is a pointless waste of time and money.

[want-a-harley]

Swine flu satire

http://www.thenznews.info/NZ%20news%2030.4.html