What you can do at a bike crash scene

[Hitcher]

Will I discover you to be one of the more prolific posters in that part of the forum?

Yes. I have over 10,000 posts in various Rant and Rave sections.

Next question please...

[firefighter]

to check if someones dead or not...(i read this somewhere) first is to check their pulse, breathing and their pupils...if theyre dead..pupils will dilate(will get bigger)...and when you shine bright light on it..the sizes of pupils wont change...

Maybe leave advice like this for the ambos, this is only half true, head injuries and drugs can also cause this.....plus general public I believe are to be looking for signs of life, not a pulse....

and for CPR...mouth to mouth is phased out now...100 chest presses per minute...

No it's not actually, in most circumstances yes, for a drowning victim things are different, and people may take this as CPR 101, breaths can still be used, they've just decided to get rid of them for a year or two until they change it again.

around 4cm above diaphragm..

You mean the line across their chest from armpit to armpit, slightly left of the sternum.....(you were'nt wrong but you need more of a description) Nipple line is out too because chests sag......

gotta press hard too..dont worry if you accidently break their ribs..

You mean the depth of their thumb.

helmet...you do need 2 people for it..but best keep it on..and best not do anything until EMS arrive..just keep em warm..and keep talking to them(the victims)

You mean keep it on unless you need to give them breaths for CPR, which in your wisdom you've already ruled out anyway so why take it off?

I know your trying to be helpful but even iv'e kept my input on actual medical care at near 0.76%, CPR instruction and advice on whether someone is dead or not should only be given by a professional, which the thread is aimed at, professional reccommendations on how to handle an accident.....not just random bits of winging it info.....you mean no harm for sure I know....but let the experts pass on the advice....

Now where is speedie to back me up.......? lol

[FROSTY:Me]

Yea guys Ive avoided the specifics of resuss deliberately.The way I see it if you don't know how at the scene then you do stuff on the list you CAN do.

[ManDownUnder]

As a total lay person - what would really help is a concise printable sheet I can laminate and stick under the seat of my bike.

There's a lot of good stuff in here but I can't take it with me, and I'm not too keen to collate/summarise it because I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about... and which bits are important... and which bits aren't.

I'm also keen to keep it to the stuff that's within my abilities and experience. Not much point in saying a Tracheotomy's the solution to a given problem if me "giving it a go" is going to kill someone. (an extreme example but you get the idea). If an experienced EMS bod is willing to collate this stuff, I'm willing to do the work of finding a laminator and doing the rest if others want a copy too.

An A4 (or preferably) A5 sheet, double sided sheet is ideal. I can print them in colour... but laminating will cost so there might be a dollar or three per copy + postage.

[FROSTY:Me]

MDU mate bear with me --or if someone with experience is able to start another thread. I called a couple of organisations and they are pretty positive on the concept. They are goiung to give their feedback to make things less er verbose.

[firefighter]

MDU mate bear with me --or if someone with experience is able to start another thread. I called a couple of organisations and they are pretty positive on the concept. They are goiung to give their feedback to make things less er verbose.

At work tonight i'll bring this up, get the boys to help me out with a step 1-10, i'll pm it to ya Frosty and you can decide if you want to put it up or if it's too complicated to remember etc.
We use a system at MVA's known as a 10 point plan, it's to do with extrication but the same concept can easily be adjusted for the moment you arrive at a scene to handover, so either tonight or tomorrow (memory permitting) i'll send it to you.

[FROSTY:Me]

At work tonight i'll bring this up, get the boys to help me out with a step 1-10, i'll pm it to ya Frosty and you can decide if you want to put it up or if it's too complicated to remember etc.
We use a system at MVA's known as a 10 point plan, it's to do with extrication but the same concept can easily be adjusted for the moment you arrive at a scene to handover, so either tonight or tomorrow (memory permitting) i'll send it to you.

Very cool dude--Im trying to apply the KISS principle so its easy to remember.

[caseye]

Keep plugging away at it Frosty, it's working mate, they're coming around, this is important and if it can be kept to a minimum and as simple as possible it will give many who would not otherwise know anything at all something to do and and ability to positively assist someone in need. Love what you are doing here .

[FROSTY:Me]

Ive had a really positive reply from one organisation I just want to confirm if Im allowed to officially credit their reply if I can then youll see a final draft pretty fast

[FROSTY:Me]

I've spoken to STJohns and have asked for an official response.
WITH PERMISSION I'm copying this e mail reply

I have been asked by a Kiwi Biker to comment on the survival skills thread. By way of introduction I’m an ambo of 30 yrs plus experience, have worked in ambulance comms centres and I am a bike enthusiast including Priority 1 motorcycle riding in traffic. On reading the thread you guys are well on the right track, the 3 key messages that come out are stay safe, prevent further injury (protect the scene) and leave the helmet on. Not bad simple advice that works.

From me, the ambo, here is my advice:

[FROSTY:Me]

1. When an accident occurs, take those deep breaths that have been recommended, slow down and think

2. Someone take charge (that means everyone else needs to calm down and take direction), the sooner key tasks are done the better the result

3. Immediately protect the fallen rider, ensure they cannot be hit by other traffic, post people into visible positions 30- 40- 50 meters away in both directions to warn other motorists

4. Find out who knows first aid and ask them to help with the rider, don’t move the injured person unless absolutely necessary, ie they are in water face down, or the approaching truck can’t stop, I also agree with the comment look for the quiet victim, they are most at risk

[FROSTY:Me]

5. Detail one person to dial 111. Work with Ambulance Comms ie listen they work to a script which includes giving lifesaving advice. The call taker doesn’t organise the ambulance (someone else is doing that. Answer the questions. The location is vital, the person ringing should be able to answer simple questions if needed (what part of NZ, road name. If it is rural between which 2 towns, how long ago did you pass known a landmark etc). Some roads have 2 names work with the call taker it’s quicker. Important note: Ambulance Comms will despatch the closest resource which may include the fire brigade and will keep adding resources (higher skilled staff, doctors, helicopters as needed based on the information you provide

6. I agree with the loosen clothing comments, don’t remove the helmet if you can possibly avoid it -however do release the chin strap, keep the head and neck in alignment and no sudden movements, we do recommend applying clean dressings to bleeding but don’t recommend applying splints.

[FROSTY:Me]

7. Take notes, this early information is vital to the attending ambulance crew, was the person unconscious (how long), were they confused, pulse rate, breathing rate, what changed.

8. The person in charge should be quietly checking off these tasks in their mind including a review of safety measures put in place to protect the rider.

[FROSTY:Me]

9. Give the person nothing to drink or eat. The comments about insulin or sugar for diabetics and ventolin for asthma are valid up to a point, only give the person medicine prescribed for them (not someone else’s which often occurs), most diabetics who need sugar -hypo are at a point where anything put into their mouth could be harmful, most hyper too much sugar diabetics will not suffer harm from not having insulin. In short unless the medication is theirs and they can manage or direct it’s use don’t give it

10. If anything changes re-ring 111 and talk with the call taker they can give you advice or add more resources if needed

11. At the end ask yourself how important is it that you complete the first aid course you’ve been meaning to do.

If you can complete points 1 through 6 within 5 minutes you’ve done exceptionally well.

Steve Walker I Duty Operations Manager
St John Northern Region

Sorry guys, despite this being all words KB bots kept saying there were too many images in the posts
Ive also had a reply unoffficially from anonther branch of the EMS that Ill post up once im sure its ok

[caseye]

Cheers Bob and thanks for taking the trime to help Frosty get this thread recognised and some genuine ambo advice into it.St Johns and your good self , take a bow.