Bikers collide with Police car in Buller Gorge (1 December)

[Grahameeboy]

There is another instance of this just about to go to court, so I can't say too much, but it's the same old same old. Cop fucks up, gets mates to cover etc. I'll fill you in when the dust settles.

...........................

[Winston001]

I wonder who'll pay the 60k? I'm not sure that level of fine would be made unless

a. Someone like his employer, or his union/association are paying....

The event occurred while he was working so you'd expect the NZ Police to pay ie. you and I. But they might not have to if his employment agreement says he isn't covered if convicted. Government agencies are too big to carry insurance.

I doubt that. Read 'reparation' in the same vein as 'compensation'. The insurance repairs are between the insurance co/s and the NZ Police.

Ah - not exactly. One of the clauses in an insurance contract is "the right of subrogation" which means your insurance co has the right to pursue the other party in your name and recover the loss.

So reparation payable to the riders belongs to the insurers.

You guys are confusing compensation with reparation. Often a fine is imposed with half or all of it going to the victim where a victim has been hurt. That is compensation for pain and distress. Usually $500 - 2000.

Reparation is quasi-damages and is only for actual loss.

If the reparation had not been ordered then the riders insurance companies would have sued this cop in a civil case.

[Beemer]

It's OK, James.
He can simply do what many criminals ordered to pay reparation do: ignore it and default.
But yes, I agree with you - it does seem rather harsh. It's a not inappropriate amount for the victims to be awarded (in fact, probably insignificant in that it won't undo the damage to their bodies or lives), but $60k is an enormous burden for a retired person.

How long had he been a cop for? How much superannuation (with generous employer contributions) had he built up? Sorry, but I'm finding it hard to have much sympathy for him. Yes, he did make a mistake, but then he lied about it, and he's probably far better off than most of us. Reparation would have to take into account his financial circumstances otherwise it's a waste of time. I would imagine the judge would have to have known he could afford it or he would not have imposed it.

[James Deuce]

Everyone lies when they do something like this.

Everyone tries to get out of it.

This is the first time I've ever seen a reparation order of that level for a road incident.

I'm not expressing sympathy, I'm quite aghast at the injustice inherent in the NZ justice system particularly in regard to how punishment for RTIs is dished out.

I feel quite sure that the majority of NZers would have an excuse that suited the circumstance and that any non-Police person would have been unlucky to be hit with a $3k fine for that particular accident. Probably only a 3 month ban too.

[far queue]

Everyone lies when they do something like this.

Everyone tries to get out of it.

Please don't tar everyone with that brush thanks. That may well be how you would react in this situation, but I would like to think that most people would be honest about it. Maybe that's naive thinking these days, but certainly I would feel guilty had I caused something like this and would do the right thing by telling the truth.

[Beemer]

Please don't tar everyone with that brush thanks. That may well be how you would react in this situation, but I would like to think that most people would be honest about it. Maybe that's naive thinking these days, but certainly I would feel guilty had I caused something like this and would do the right thing by telling the truth.

Agreed - while most of us would try and get out of it by finding anything the other person may have done to contribute to the accident (basic human nature I reckon), if it came down to it, most of us would not lie. I have only been involved in one accident and as it was my fault, I owned up and paid (well, the insurance company did) for the damage.

[James Deuce]

Please don't tar everyone with that brush thanks. That may well be how you would react in this situation, but I would like to think that most people would be honest about it. Maybe that's naive thinking these days, but certainly I would feel guilty had I caused something like this and would do the right thing by telling the truth.

It's near 30 years of riding bikes and driving cars that makes me think like this. I haven't caused an accident yet, and despite being put in ICU, theatre and the spinal unit, not one person responsible ever manned up in court.

Even when I've been hit from behind it's been my "fault" for stopping too quickly.

People have cried, apologised, promised to help make things better, but after a couple of days reflection, it's always ended up my fault.

You are being extremely naive thinking that people will own anything that they do on the road. It's never their fault.

Accidents where I've been involved with helping the injured party and have witnessed the accident have ended up with me in court having my witness statement ripped to shreds. It is the rare event when people fully own the responsibility of causing injury or death for another person.

[scumdog]

I don't actually agree the premise that the cop got off at all. He's been dealt to far more viciously than you or I would have been.

Yup, where are the nay-sayers and 'whitewash' criers now??

[Winston001]

Yup, where are the nay-sayers and 'whitewash' criers now??

NAY NAY and hand me that bucket and brush while you're at it.....

[Winston001]

...Reparation would have to take into account his financial circumstances otherwise it's a waste of time. I would imagine the judge would have to have known he could afford it or he would not have imposed it.

Good point and I'm sure you are right. The judge will have had some information saying he can pay.

I'm quite aghast at the injustice inherent in the NZ justice system particularly in regard to how punishment for RTIs is dished out.

...any non-Police person would have been unlucky to be hit with a $3k fine for that particular accident.

Well said. However no fine was imposed. None. The money is to repay the damage caused by the accident. Quite separate from a fine.

What we need to know is whether the ex-cop pays up himself or the police ie. the taxpayer fronts up. Makes a big difference. The fact that no fine was imposed suggests he's going to have to pay personally - where are our resident rozzers when we need 'em??

[James Deuce]

Well said. However no fine was imposed. None. The money is to repay the damage caused by the accident. Quite separate from a fine.

I do understand that, and that is why I was making the distinction. Fines seem to be on an optional payment basis in NZ.

I have a feeling that if the reparation isn't covered by the "other means" someone will be selling their house or taking out a mortgage to pay the reparations.

Net worth and ability to pay are different things.

[scumdog]

The fact that no fine was imposed suggests he's going to have to pay personally - where are our resident rozzers when we need 'em??

As he has not been a member of for a bit I guess he will be paying.

(probably out of his retirement money - which the tax-payer had been paying into for many years - a right conundrum eh?)

[caseye]

His sentence 100hrs community work and a fine of some hundreds is not that harsh.
The reparations are Outrageous, no ordinarty motorist would have received such an order.
This guy(a Police Officer these days even if he had until 2000 or so when the two services were assimilated been a T/O) we are told he lied about the riders approach speed in order to deflect the blame from himself.
if true then I despise and dislike him intensly, him, not all Police Officers who can and do make mistakes on a daily basis, theres lots of them and most are honest hard working guys or gals making our lives safer, while trying their level best not to screw up and lose their lifes ambition, to serve,protect and help their fellow citizens as Police officers.
In this case based on what I've heard, read and seen the sentence is much higher than any ordinary citizen would get but under the circumstances I feel no sympathy for this ex officer, the poor bloody riders , yes. Get well soon guys and get back aboard a bike asap.

[Fatjim]

I don't think the payments too much, its just that this should happen to everyone who does this. That's why its unfair.

But the copper got snapped lying. If he had not resigned, he would have lost his job for that I would hope. If he had fessed up, said he made an error of judgement, I would not have been against him keeping his job, if indeed he wanted it after this mess. Indeed, he may have got a lesser judgement if he had, although 100 hours of community service?.... who ever does their hours?

As an aside, what really pisses me of, is that coppers have this credibility in court that a person presumed innocent does not. For once, the veneer of honesty has been exposed. However, I doubt it will stop the long standing traditions of "convict at all costs".

[far queue]

It's near 30 years of riding bikes and driving cars that makes me think like this.

I also have 30 years riding, driving, cycling experience.

You are being extremely naive thinking that people will own anything that they do on the road. It's never their fault.

Not at all. I've been hit by cars 3 times while cycling, all their fault. The first apologised and admitted he was in the wrong, then days later changed his mind and didn't want to know me. The second apologised and admitted he was in the wrong. I reported it to the police anyway just in case he changed his mind, and the cop concerned prosecuted him, despite my asking him not to at this point. I felt bad for him as he had just done something dumb but had apologised for it and went out of his way to help me after the accident. The third also apologised and admitted he was in the wrong and followed up with me over the following week, ensuring I was OK and providing quality replacement parts for my bike.

Accidents where I've been involved with helping the injured party and have witnessed the accident have ended up with me in court having my witness statement ripped to shreds.

The lawyer is as much to blame here as anyone. I feel that mostly they are just out to line their own pockets and get their client off regardless. Admittedly it's their job to get their clients off, but I do often wonder at their morals, and off course the client could plead guilty, but that wouldn't be the lawyers advice. Sorry Winston.

It is the rare event when people fully own the responsibility of causing injury or death for another person.

Your experiences and mine are clearly different.