Careless driving charge! Help

**caseye** · 12th May 2009, 19:10

If it was me, I'd also be asking if theres a good lawyer who rides out here in KB land, they'd definitely be an asset.

**cs363** · 13th May 2009, 00:10

Originally Posted by James Deuce

At the risk of making myself really unpopular (hang on, no need to worry really, is there?), Careless Use is usually dropped on drivers/riders who fail to to take due consideration of the conditions and cause an accident.

It is sometimes used on motorcyclists who simply fall off whilst cornering enthusiastically, and in one case I know a mate fell off on diesel during a light rain shower and the camber and slippery conditions caught him out. The cop following him (unlucky, eh?) didn't fall off and reasoned that the mate shouldn't have either, if he'd been a little more careful.

The fact that you involved another vehicle in the loss of control of your motorcycle (it sounds mean, but that's what happened. The "beep" didn't make you fall off.) is not going to look good I'm afraid.

I don't think you have a defensible case. You lost control and hit a car. You can't really "spin" that in a positive light.

All good points and proves there are always different ways of viewing the same issue. Regardless I still think the OP would be well advised to spend a few $$ and at least seek legal opinion from a decent traffic lawyer.
Was the cop actually following, I didn't see that bit? If poor road conditions contributed to the accident isn't there some liability on the council or whomever is responsible for that pice of road?

At the very least talking to a lawyer will clear up all this guesswork and give an idea whether to go to court on this or just STFU and take the punishment.

**Gubb** · 13th May 2009, 07:43

Cops didn't turn up for a good 40 minutes.

From where I see it (and i'm sorry z99) there is a case of careless use. 10 other bikes (including myself) came across that bridge with no issues at all.

**Winston001** · 13th May 2009, 09:21

Originally Posted by fireliv

Not true (Sorry MSTRS but I deal with this stuff). You can have diversion in a traffic charge as long as there is no mandatory disqualification period and the charge is not deemed serious enough. This is such a case. I would strongly suggest you try for diversion if it is an option.

Diversion is fine BUT it requires you to fully accept the charge, recognise you were in the wrong, apologise, offer reparation to the other motorists etc. So it's a one-way process. You can't argue a defence because that means you don't accept being guilty.

Originally Posted by cs363

If poor road conditions contributed to the accident isn't there some liability on the council or whomever is responsible for that piece of road?

Very rarely you might be able to prove negligence by a council/Transit but that's only going to help with paying for repairs. And I think they are protected from liability by law - otherwise the courts would be full of cases against roading operators and contractors.

However a fault in the road would provide you with a defence - the problem is proving it.

Originally Posted by Gubb

From where I see it (and i'm sorry z99) there is a case of careless use. 10 other bikes (including myself) came across that bridge with no issues at all.

Fair comment but accidents do happen. It could even be a fault with the bike - but you need expert evidence to persuade the court.

**James Deuce** · 13th May 2009, 11:00

Originally Posted by Winston001

Fair comment but accidents do happen. It could even be a fault with the bike - but you need expert evidence to persuade the court.

A fault with the bike isn't an excuse. Accidents are hugely infrequent. Most incidents are caused by the rider or driver.

**fireliv** · 13th May 2009, 21:14

Originally Posted by Winston001

Diversion is fine BUT it requires you to fully accept the charge, recognise you were in the wrong, apologise, offer reparation to the other motorists etc. So it's a one-way process. You can't argue a defence because that means you don't accept being guilty.
.

Correct but as he wishes not to have a conviction, the simpliest way of ensuring that is to seek diversion. If you really think you have a strong defense then go for it. DOnt waste time/your money on "expert opinions" (unless you know some willing to give it for free) cos in the scheme of things its not a big deal. It wont stop you going overseas and unless you are a driver and you employer is an ass it wont stop you working either.

**scumdog** · 13th May 2009, 23:00

Originally Posted by Gubb

Cops didn't turn up for a good 40 minutes.

From where I see it (and i'm sorry z99) there is a case of careless use. 10 other bikes (including myself) came across that bridge with no issues at all.

And that sums it up.

"Driving in a manner a normal prudent motorist would not" -or sommat like that.

**Badger8** · 13th May 2009, 23:19

Originally Posted by Gubb

From where I see it (and i'm sorry z99) there is a case of careless use. 10 other bikes (including myself) came across that bridge with no issues at all.

I've gotta agree with Gubb on that one. I was lead rider and came through without a problem, and the three behind me did also before you. The corner is a tad deceptive looking as you approach it (looks tighter than it actually is), but other than that is the same as thousands of others on other typical New Zealand roads.
If i were you i'd be counting myself lucky the driver saw you in trouble and ran wide round that corner, or you may not be writing this thread.

Originally Posted by Winston001

Fair comment but accidents do happen. It could even be a fault with the bike - but you need expert evidence to persuade the court.

Knowing the history of the bike, there was nothing wrong was it. Was in good working order at the time.

Hope you are healing up well Andy, take care.

**Manix48** · 14th May 2009, 16:59

Originally Posted by z99

First time gt the "careless driving charge 37(1)" NOt to sure what too do..should i pay some lawers?or just use a free duty lawer out side the court?

I've had a couple. 10 years ago mind. But I never lost my License. Just a fine and I had to sit a defensive driving course for one of them.

**Winston001** · 14th May 2009, 21:39

Originally Posted by fireliv

Correct but as he wishes not to have a conviction, the simpliest way of ensuring that is to seek diversion. If you really think you have a strong defense then go for it. Dont waste time/your money on "expert opinions" (unless you know some willing to give it for free) cos in the scheme of things its not a big deal. It wont stop you going overseas and unless you are a driver and you employer is an ass it wont stop you working either.

Well said. Careless Use is not a major conviction, you aren't even compelled to turn up at Court but you should - always looks better.

It will affect your insurance rating. You might be disqualified from driving too.

**Sharry** · 14th May 2009, 23:01

Originally Posted by Badger8

I've gotta agree with Gubb on that one. I was lead rider and came through without a problem, and the three behind me did also before you. The corner is a tad deceptive looking as you approach it (looks tighter than it actually is), but other than that is the same as thousands of others on other typical New Zealand roads.
If i were you i'd be counting myself lucky the driver saw you in trouble and ran wide round that corner, or you may not be writing this thread.

I have to agree with Gubb and Badger here mate. The first four bikes got through safe, as the rest of us did and we all have on many other rides on that road.
I saw your left foot go out as you left the bridge and guessed you were in trouble but did not realise how much untill you were airborn. If the BMW had not moved left you would have had a head on with it.
It's a hard lesson to learn from and I do hope you are healing, even though it is slowly.

**z99** · 14th May 2009, 23:48

One of my friend said he just use one of the duty lawer for his careless driving charge case,and he got Diversion.He also said he was wrong and offer send himself to driving course at court.No dine not even court fee..but that was 2006 in northshore.

**fireliv** · 15th May 2009, 14:37

Originally Posted by z99

One of my friend said he just use one of the duty lawer for his careless driving charge case,and he got Diversion.He also said he was wrong and offer send himself to driving course at court.No dine not even court fee..but that was 2006 in northshore.

Yup will depend on the court as to whether there is a duty lawyer assigned to that court. Why dont you give the court oyu will be appearing in a call and find out?

When are you going to court anyways??

**z99** · 16th May 2009, 01:36

Originally Posted by fireliv

Yup will depend on the court as to whether there is a duty lawyer assigned to that court. Why dont you give the court oyu will be appearing in a call and find out?

When are you going to court anyways??

22nf of May next friday