Removing wing mirrors...

[CookMySock]

[....] do you think that perhaps they're more likely to think "Fuck you ya prick, I'll take out the next fucker on a motorcycle who passes me"?

You really worry about that happening to you, don't you? Is that the whole problem, Steve? Other motorcyclists putting you at risk because they make cagers angry?

Thread TL;DR.

Steve

[Katman]

You really worry about that happening to you, don't you? Is that the whole problem, Steve? Other motorcyclists putting you at risk because they make cagers angry?

Thread TL;DR.

Steve

No, I'm not that worried about it happening to me. I'm confident enough in my ability to be able to avoid finding myself in a position where it is likely to affect me to any great degree.

It is those who I care about, that ride motorcycles, that I worry about - some of whom are considerably less experienced than myself.

But I don't suppose you'd understand that DB. As long as you're having fun you don't seem to give a fuck about any other road user.

[vifferman]

I've only deliberately attacked one driver's car, and felt guilty immediately after doing so - it didn't make me feel better, and didn't teach him anything.
I was riding home, came up to a T-intersection to turn left, and the driver in front of me was either pissed, stoned, or a complete fuckwit. He ambled over to the right at the intersection, then turned left in front of me. Although I was too alert to have been hit by this tard, I was so enraged about his crappy and careless driving that when I went by him at the traffic lights, I punched his mirror so it was folded forward. I doubt that he noticed or realised what it was about.

Far more effective has been the times I've followed people who have cut me off because they didn't look, and when they stopped at their destination, told them what they'd done and that they should be more careful. Dunno if it made any difference.

I can say I've only had one dickhead deliberately endanger my life, and there wasn't much I could do about it - I felt VERY angry and impotent. I was travelling down Onewa road in the right lane, and some metres behind me in the left lane was a man with a very small penis driving a large and powerful Falcadore ute. (Yes, that's why his driving was bad - he should've used his hands, not his childlike organ). Ahead of us, the left lane was (very obviously) blocked by a truck with falshing arrow thing on the back. Instead of slowing slightly, and changing lanes behind me, Mr Childlike-Organ planted his foot and swung to the right. I hit the brakes very hard, so he didn't hit me. I think I tootled him vigorously, waved my arm around, and that was about all I could do. I would've remonstrated with him at the traffic lights, but they were green, and he turned left.

I dunno what else I could've done. He obviously didn't give a damn, so the only recourse left would've been retribution. Wouldn't have fixed things, and in his tiny-brained, tiny-organed world, wouldn't have been a case of "fair enough". I probably would've had a momentary thrill, followed by an awful to of guilty feelings.

[cs363]

I ride bikes and bicycles. This is by far the most aggressive country in the world to ride -riding in the US is actually safer, and better. I have hosted many elite, world class riders over the years - and all them have been shocked by the level of aggression here.

We have a societal issue with violence and aggression here.

I'm heading back up to Holland/Belgium/Germany in a week or so, and I'll be doing a lot of cycling there - the rules are very different, and to be honest, much better than here. There is no aggression or malice intended.

The answer is much harder to find than curing drink driving - most people think they're good drivers, and losing 10 seconds to a cyclist or motorcycle somehow justifies their behaviour. So, you're not going to reach them.

To be honest, I've been a staunch supported of living here, but I'm 2 years away from moving overseas permanently. Living in Holland pays better, I can ride my pushie safely, and where I'd like to live, is only a couple of hours from the Nurburgring...

Have to agree, especially the years I spent living & working in Auckland.
I would rather ride/drive in rush hour in Los Angeles than in Auckland and/or most places in NZ. Over there (and most civilised countries I've been to) people let you in to a row of traffic when you indicate rather than the childish/aggressive antics you see here with people closing the gap rather than let someone in front of them (the horror!), and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Bad driving habits abound in NZ (tailgating, failing to give way, failing to indicate or use mirrors, passing on blind corners/brows of hills, on double yellow lines, slow traffic failing to yield to traffic behind and the list just goes on...) and unfortunately the powers that be would rather turn a blind eye to that in preference to dishing out speeding tickets for 11km/h over the limit on a deserted road.
The rot starts with the pathetic licensing system and it's almost complete lack of driver training and just gets worse....
I'm going to stop now because I can feel a rant coming on...

[MarkH]

I don't think I can agree with what is said about NZs bad drivers. I know some drivers are fuckin' arseholes - but most are courteous and sensible. I think it is just that the jerks stand out more in our memories.

I developed a technique for changing lanes on Auckland's motorways, just to cope with the small percentage of arseholes. The problem is that when I am beside a reasonable gap and indicate to let the car a few car lengths back know what I am doing, sometimes that car will speed up. My technique is to indicate and watch that car in my wing mirror. If he maintains the gap and gives me enough room (which most do) then after indicating for 3 seconds I move over - this is my courteous lane change. If the other driver responds to my indicating my speeding up then I immediately change lanes. The smarter readers would have guessed that I am describing car driving - on the bike I don't have a real problem with the cars.

I do get very pissed off with the bad/inconsiderate drivers but surely they are a fairly small minority (we still have to be careful lest one of these retards kill us).

[Patch]

take all the arrogant self-righteous arseholes out of dorkland and there'd be bugger all people left - would be a shit load safer/easier to get about tho


Most steel wins!!

[XRVrider]

After driving in 20 or so countries, I agree with a few comments above. Many here are not considerate drivers and some of the stuff that goes on is childish and just plain dumb. Just take a look at our road toll per capita, I think it is, or was 2nd worst in 1st world countries. That says a lot really.

[MarkH]

After driving in 20 or so countries, I agree with a few comments above. Many here are not considerate drivers and some of the stuff that goes on is childish and just plain dumb. Just take a look at our road toll per capita, I think it is, or was 2nd worst in 1st world countries. That says a lot really.

It also fails to say a lot too. I wonder how we rate on road toll per km travelled? Some countries have a smaller percentage of the population that drive (like China and India) so the road toll per capita may not be the most accurate measurement of how good/bad NZ drivers are.

[XRVrider]

It also fails to say a lot too. I wonder how we rate on road toll per km travelled? Some countries have a smaller percentage of the population that drive (like China and India) so the road toll per capita may not be the most accurate measurement of how good/bad NZ drivers are.

China and India are not first world countries but I think I know what you mean. We can break figures down such as kms travelled etc... but that doesnt mean that more people should die on our roads, just because we maybe drive more. Look at Australia for that comparison as they drive massive distances and they have way less die per person. Road toll is an indicator and there are always the stories of crossing the center line and head on accidents, for example, while on the phone or even texting, not clever. Fact is that many people know, is that some in New Zealand are diabolical drivers, and many other countries are setting up their roads and driving skills in better ways, we should too.

Anyway, sorry this is getting a bit off topic.

[CookMySock]

I don't think I can agree with what is said about NZs bad drivers. I know some drivers are fuckin' arseholes - but most are courteous and sensible. I think it is just that the jerks stand out more in our memories.

For sure. Generally I have no problems, and the problems I do have I can solve with a flick of the wrist.

on the bike I don't have a real problem with the cars.

Ditto. The easy way is to lanesplit everywhere, whether it is required or not. Pass cars on the white line and it's impossible to pull out in front of other traffic.

I do get very pissed off with the bad/inconsiderate drivers but surely they are a fairly small minority (we still have to be careful lest one of these retards kill us).

Try my "twist the wrist and smoke them" solution. It works damn fine for me.

Steve

[Katman]

and the problems I do have I can solve with a flick of the wrist.

What you get up to in the privacy of your own home is your business.

The easy way is to lanesplit everywhere, whether it is required or not. Pass cars on the white line and it's impossible to pull out in front of other traffic.

And that has to be some of the most retarded advice you've ever given.

[Grahameeboy]

I don't think I can agree with what is said about NZs bad drivers. I know some drivers are fuckin' arseholes - but most are courteous and sensible. I think it is just that the jerks stand out more in our memories.

I developed a technique for changing lanes on Auckland's motorways, just to cope with the small percentage of arseholes. The problem is that when I am beside a reasonable gap and indicate to let the car a few car lengths back know what I am doing, sometimes that car will speed up. My technique is to indicate and watch that car in my wing mirror. If he maintains the gap and gives me enough room (which most do) then after indicating for 3 seconds I move over - this is my courteous lane change. If the other driver responds to my indicating my speeding up then I immediately change lanes. The smarter readers would have guessed that I am describing car driving - on the bike I don't have a real problem with the cars.

I do get very pissed off with the bad/inconsiderate drivers but surely they are a fairly small minority (we still have to be careful lest one of these retards kill us).

Compared with the rest of the world NZ drivers are pretty bad and inconsiderate...

[Grahameeboy]

What you get up to in the privacy of your own home is your business.



And that has to be some of the most retarded advice you've ever given.

Oh Katman...retards have more sense than that...

[CookMySock]

And that has to be some of the most retarded advice you've ever given.

Logic? Rationale? Reasoning? Eplanation? Snide remark? Abusive reply?

Which of these tools will you use today? Some of them will benefit you and others, and some of them will do no good at all.

Steve

[martybabe]

I'm heading back up to Holland/Belgium/Germany in a week or so, and I'll be doing a lot of cycling there - the rules are very different, and to be honest, much better than here. There is no aggression or malice intended.

..

I sat sipping a latte on a street corner in Amsterdam once upon a time, right by a major road junction, 6or 7 exits + filter lanes and traffic lights. literally hundreds of bicycles passed by in half an hour or so, crossing and re crossing lanes intermingling with cars and bikes. whilst my heart was in my mouth waiting for what I saw as the inevitable, nothing, nada, zilch, not a single near miss even, t'was like a well oiled machine in action,amazing driver bicycle empathy.

Back on topic, I have never mashed a wing mirror nor kicked a door but I fully understand it as an act of anger.

What to a driver is a minor driving error or a brief flash of arrogance or risk taking, one of many a day no doubt, Is to a biker a potentially fatal accident, the loss of a father/brother/sister for someone's carelessness or stupidity, damn right I'd be angry. I don't pretend to know the answer but if someone swung a loaded shotgun round in your living room and then left are we proposing a simple shake of the head would make them realise the error of their ways?.

Whilst I can't condone giving their car a good kicking,to let them carry on as if nothing had happened is surely as potentially dangerous for the next biker that crosses their path as the scenario you put forward .

Dangerous ignorance or driver with a grudge..I don't want to meet either of the fuggers!