Saturday's accident (20 June)

[idleidolidyll]

As the other eye witness who gave a statement to police, I totally support Andy.

We tried hard both to keep Michael with us and to make him think of friends and family.

As Andy says, Michael was riding slow, much slower than us when he crashed and I managed to stop on the corner just 10-15 metres past where he lay.
The cops have said speed was a major factor; that's bullshit and I'm disgusted that they would ignore the two eye witness statements. Michael left Whitianga well before us and we had just caught him when the accident happened. I estimate I was doing maybe 70-80 around that corner and he was significantly slower. I intend to head to the site and with my GPS, measure the markers as I believe the media and the police owe his family an apology.

I've spoken to Michaels mum and been in contact with Michaels fiancee: He was no noob, Michael was an experienced rider and that was noted by a few riders who rode quite a way in his company and by seeing his perfect entry and exit lines in several photos I took (much better lines than 75% of the rest of the bikes in my pics).

I don't believe Michael would be laying guilt on Andy and I'm saddened and ashamed that others are.

Andy, his wife and I will share this memory forever as will a few others who were close to the scene. We don't need those who were not there and didn't see the circumstances speaking without thinking or using this sad accident to push their personal barrows about group rides, organisers or the Coro loop; we get enough crap from the police without having it from our own.

Michael, I hope you and your Dad are smiling together now.

[CookMySock]

Andy.. please get yourself some Bach "Rescue Remedy" from a chemist or health shop.. & use it lots!! It will help!!

Another really good one is Omega3 essential fatty acids (fish oil and others.) Take six grams morning and night and watch stress vanish completely. Ask at your health food shop. DO IT.

Sorry to hear you guys went through this. I haven't had the misfortune to see that, and from what I have read here, I will make damn sure I don't.

best,
Steve

[chanceyy]

Andy deepest sympathy to yourself and to others who wittnessed the accident .. and echo others regarding councelling

I too agree with mom by the grace of god I go ... I never posted on the other threads as I was not there did not see first hand (although I have been busy moderating) .. I appreciated the posts from III, which clearly stated that it was no ones fault, so please stop feeling guilty .. its simply a tragic accident..

I know from his mothers blog that she appreciated everyones efforts and please take some small comfort he did not die alone, because you guys were there. It will take time and the pain will ease however there is no guilt to be felt for posting a ride.

to everyone involved

[Paul in NZ]

I wasn't there but.... I've been there and yes, it definately changes you and it changes everything and somehow it seems, nothing changes... Sometimes it will seem like no one else understands but unfortunately some do...

The sense of guilt, the grief, the questioning is a mark of your decency and humanity and it does all involved some credit. Shit does happen and when serious shit happens there are serious questions. If there was no out pouring of grief and emotion I would be vastly more concerned...

People talk about your brothers riding at your shoulder as if it's all some kinda wierd 'nice' movie like ghost or a david mann painting, even a cool thing. But first those brothers have to pass the veil and thats never easy, it's not a movie its REAL. Big tough 1% types cry and bleed just like the rest of us and like I said it aint easy.

Fault, blame, guilt and anger changes nothing, living and adapting, remembering and learning does change things... No blame here for you, just some understanding.

[Tink]

Where do I start.....
I saw it happen, I ran back and with a couple of others tried like hell to keep him alive, I felt the deep feeling when someone passes away, I wiped his blood from my hands. I see the accident and the results in my head every time I close my eyes.

Don't you lot think I feel guilty as hell?

BUT I really don't think I could have prevented it, apart from not 'organizing' it, but even that may not have prevented it from happening if he chose to go on his own.
There was no-one else involved. He wasn't 'racing' or even going fast.
Yes it was not terribly well organized, but the route was clearly stated in the first post of the ride, along with the fact that we'll wait for slower riders, no pressure to keep up.

No-one had to come.

Despite all this I still have that sick feeling in my stomach, and will live with this for the rest of my life.

And don't worry, it won't happen again.

R.I.P Disturbed (Micheal Lagore)

I was like a fly on the wall this day.. only wishing Geordie and I could be with you all... tears and thoughts... your a good person.. never blame yourself.. we all take risks in life... on two wheel.. or on wings.. or more. x

As the other eye witness who gave a statement to police, I totally support Andy.

We tried hard both to keep Michael with us and to make him think of friends and family.

As Andy says, Michael was riding slow, much slower than us when he crashed and I managed to stop on the corner just 10-15 metres past where he lay.
The cops have said speed was a major factor; that's bullshit and I'm disgusted that they would ignore the two eye witness statements. Michael left Whitianga well before us and we had just caught him when the accident happened. I estimate I was doing maybe 70-80 around that corner and he was significantly slower. I intend to head to the site and with my GPS, measure the markers as I believe the media and the police owe his family an apology.

I've spoken to Michaels mum and been in contact with Michaels fiancee: He was no noob, Michael was an experienced rider and that was noted by a few riders who rode quite a way in his company and by seeing his perfect entry and exit lines in several photos I took (much better lines than 75% of the rest of the bikes in my pics).

I don't believe Michael would be laying guilt on Andy and I'm saddened and ashamed that others are.

Andy, his wife and I will share this memory forever as will a few others who were close to the scene. We don't need those who were not there and didn't see the circumstances speaking without thinking or using this sad accident to push their personal barrows about group rides, organisers or the Coro loop; we get enough crap from the police without having it from our own.

Michael, I hope you and your Dad are smiling together now.

Faith is in knowing...

I wasn't there but.... I've been there and yes, it definately changes you and it changes everything and somehow it seems, nothing changes... Sometimes it will seem like no one else understands but unfortunately some do...

The sense of guilt, the grief, the questioning is a mark of your decency and humanity and it does all involved some credit. Shit does happen and when serious shit happens there are serious questions. If there was no out pouring of grief and emotion I would be vastly more concerned...

People talk about your brothers riding at your shoulder as if it's all some kinda wierd 'nice' movie like ghost or a david mann painting, even a cool thing. But first those brothers have to pass the veil and thats never easy, it's not a movie its REAL. Big tough 1% types cry and bleed just like the rest of us and like I said it aint easy.

Fault, blame, guilt and anger changes nothing, living and adapting, remembering and learning does change things... No blame here for you, just some understanding.

Good words... you ride in safety .. 11 Sept 2001 I flew across the world .. we all take steps in life... in safety of our own expectations.. go with the wind.

[YellowDog]

Mate, we wern't there and can only go on what was reported. Thank you for the info.

You guys don't need to convince anyone you are not guilty. You know you are not and that should be enough. If you are not careful this will take over your lives.

Like has already been said, you have been through a terrible trauma and need to have supporting friends and family around you.

Take care and good luck.

[gunnyrob]

Condolances & best wishes for all involved.

I did the Coro loop in concert with Pumbaa, Ninja Nana & Greg on Saturday too. We were about 2 hours behind you lot, but we stayed in Whiritoa that night & heard the news there.

Up till that point, all we could say was that it was one of "those days", as in one of those days where it was perfect, the weather, the roads, the company, all of it.

It's a tragedy that your guys ride ended the way it did, I can't comment about the incident as I wasn't there, but as the others have said, you can't shoulder the blame. Get help, & you'll get through it. Ride on, shiny side up.

[dpex]

Mate, you are not to blame despite how you feel. Do not take ownership of other peoples errors. We all make our own decissions and mistakes in life. The accident is a tragedy, the loss of a life unforgetable.
I agree that some councilling (its just talking about how you feel) will do you a lot of good (think of it a soap for your mind). ACC will fund it if you talk to your GP about it and get a referral. In fact everyone that was on the ride should be entitled to funded councilling.
I feel for you buddy.

What he said. Best advice yet.

[Paul in NZ]

As the other eye witness who gave a statement to police,

Sorry if this is inappropriate but.... Are those poor officers getting the counselling they need after one of your statements?

[davereid]

RIP Disturbed.

Any time we do something for pleasure, we take a risk. Sometimes we misjudge something, and get to look back at it, other times we don't.

You were not riding for him, you can't take responsibility.

Saying to yourself "should I have organised this ride ?" "Should I have ridden more slowly ?" and the hundreds of other things that go through your head are not helpful.

Its the great kiwi way to shoulder blame or responsibility, and to try and conjure up ways of making sure things dont go wrong again. Often its to be admired. But in this case it's not needed.

I understand Mike misjudged a corner.

Thats one of the reasons we ride, for the pleasure of not doing something entirely within our skill set, something that leaves us a little wound up as we take a little risk.

[RT527]

Good luck Death All the advice given will be helpful to you.

Get Well soon Andy and all others Involved in this incident, you all should get in touch with Thames victim support and see if they can point you in the right direction for help failing that your GP as has been suggested can help you with any problems you are having.

Things for partners to look out for, Any mood swings both ways , any headaches, not sleeping, things out of the norm for your partners usual habits.
Another thing no one can force anyone to get help so just support them and guide them eventually they will need and seek it.

Good luck Guys and Girls

[cowpatz]

Is there a thread with the accident details anywhere? All I have read is that a respected rider has tragically lost his life during an organised ride on an otherwise "perfect day". I'm just wondering about the reason he came off as from what I have read he was a confident rider, taking good lines, and at "normal" speeds. Was this a low or high side drop or was another vehicle or object involved? Was the bike handling OK? I am just trying to gain a mental picture of what happened and why. No judgements just the observed facts and prior comments made that may help understand. For all of us this is our worst nightmare and anything that can come of this that can help us understand what happened and even perhaps help us improve our own riding would be most beneficial.
My deepest condolences to partner and family.

[Nasty]

Is there a thread with the accident details anywhere? All I have read is that a respected rider has tragically lost his life during an organised ride on an otherwise "perfect day". I'm just wondering about the reason he came off as from what I have read he was a confident rider, taking good lines, and at "normal" speeds. Was this a low or high side drop or was another vehicle or object involved? Was the bike handling OK? I am just trying to gain a mental picture of what happened and why. No judgements just the observed facts and prior comments made that may help understand. For all of us this is our worst nightmare and anything that can come of this that can help us understand what happened and even perhaps help us improve our own riding would be most beneficial.
My deepest condolences to partner and family.

No there is not a thread on details.

[MSTRS:Me]

No there is not a thread on details.

And it's not needed.
There are enough facts scattered through the threads that do exist to work out (as much as it is possible) what happened. Even the riders who were there don't really know, for sure.

[Max Preload]

I wasn't there but it seems to me there is a lot of bullshit being bandied in this and the other thread regarding riding mob mentality causing people to ride beyond their own limits. However, the actual witnesses say otherwise.

Might I suggest they get the fuck off their soap boxs and just see it for what it is - a tragic accident caused by a momentary lapse of judgement of an individual. There is no blame to be apportioned to other riders who happened to be along for this ride.