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Thread: Settling Maori claims. Someone explain.

  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by popelli View Post
    That is just one of the cultures, what about all the other cultures introduced by successive migrations of people to NZ

    A unique Kiwi culture would include parts from all of the cultures to make a unique blend, not have one culture dominate to the exclusion and detriment of all other cultures.
    Because of our isolation as remote islands, we have an unusually clear choice. Maori culture. This (and the Cook Islands) is the only place in the world where Maori is spoken. Maori culture exists nowhere else. Grab it while we can.

    Other cultures - when I was very young in the 60s, there were still a few people here who spoke Gaelic. Older people talked about Home = Britain. Childrens books were british.

    Today thats all gone. Looking at my own children, they are American with Kiwi accents. Their saving grace is they enjoy Monty Python. :

    Quote Originally Posted by scracha View Post
    Totally disagree. MANY other countries have broken treaties, nothing was rectified and for better or worse, life went, and still does go on. Why keep apologising? 'The Crown' should just turn around, say 'yes, we as the more advanced civilisation gave you the shaft. Now just be grateful we didn't slaughter you and get on with MODERN life'
    Forget and move on......you mean just like the rest of the world?

    Here's a quick list from Wikipedia: you'll note these are not racial movements. NB - Maori ambitions are so minor they don't even appear.


    Ethnic separatism is based more on cultural and linguistic differences than religious or racial differences


    * Separatist movements of Northern Italy called Padania
    * the Kurdish people whose lands and peoples were divided between Turkey, Syria, Iraq after World War I.
    Also the Kurdish region in Iran.
    * the Tuareg separatists in Niger and Mali.[17]
    * Separatist movements of India including Insurgency in Jammu and Kashmir and Insurgent groups in Northeast India.
    * Spain’s Basque and Catalan separatists.
    * France's Basque, Catalan, Corsican and Breton separatists,
    * the Soviet Union’s dissolution into its original ethnic groupings which formed their own nations of Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.
    * Czechoslovakia’s split into ethnic Czech and Slovakian republics in 1993.
    * the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia dissolution into ethnic (and religious) based Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Slovenia, Montenegro, Serbia and Kosovo.
    * Belgium granting Dutch-speaking Flanders and French-speaking Wallonia greater autonomy.
    * Switzerland’s division into cantons along geographical, religious and linguistic lines.[18]
    * French-speaking Quebec debating and voting on separation from Canada over several decades.
    * Africa’s hundreds of ethnic groups[19] are subsumed into 53 nation states, often leading to ethnic conflict and separatism,[20] including in Angola, Algeria, Burundi, Congo and The Democratic Republic of the Congo, Darfur in Sudan, Ethiopia, Senegal, Somalia, South Africa, Uganda, Western Sahara and Zimbabwe.
    * The Nigerian civil war (also known as the Biafran war) during the 1960s among Igbos, Hausa-Fulani and Yoruba; today’s ethnic and oil-related conflict in the Niger Delta of Nigeria.
    * Conflicts in Liberia between African-Liberians and Americo-Liberians, Africans who immigrated from the Americas after being freed from slavery.
    * Conflicts between Zulus and Xhosa in South Africa during and after apartheid.[21]
    * Boere-Afrikaner separatists.
    * The 1994 Hutu campaign of genocide against minority Tutsis in Rwanda. (See: Rwandan Genocide)
    * Indian and Pakistani ethnic and linguistic groups seeking greater autonomy.[22][23]
    * China's Tibet and Xinjiang regions have separatist governments in exile.[24]
    * Sri Lanka's ethnic Tamil minority separatism in Tamil Eelam.
    * Texas separatism in the United States.[25]
    * Yugoslavia's ethnic Albanian minority separatism in Kosovo.
    * Chechen separatism in the Caucasus
    * Burma’s ethnic Arakan, Chin, Kachin, Karen, Shan, Wa separatism.
    * Separatism in Silesia
    * Free Papua Movement in Indonesia
    * Armenian separatists of Nagorno-Karabakh in Azerbaijan.
    * South Ossetia and Abkhazia separatism in Georgia.
    * Anjouan's separatism in Union of Comoros

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    ...A couple of thousand Northland Maori, in their spare time, invented mondern warfare concepts, like trenches, strategic forts, bunkers, and pallisades with firing holes at ground level. ....
    Here I have to disagree with you.

    Sure they used these techiques against a force that was still using tactics from the Napoleonic wars but they cant lay claim to inventing them.

    You only have to look back to the Romans to see that they employed the same strategies apart from the firing holes for rifles, they had them for bows.

    The Normans built these hilltop fortifcations and centuries before them so did the Celts (2500-3000 years ago).

    The ancient Greeks, the ancient Chinese, the Egyptians, the Persians all had this type of fortification thousands of years befor it was used here in NZ.
    "When you think of it,

    Lifes a bowl of ....MERDE"

  3. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Deuce View Post
    A couple of thousand Northland Maori, in their spare time, invented mondern warfare concepts, like trenches, strategic forts, bunkers, and pallisades with firing holes at ground level.
    It was purely accidental. We all know the mighty warriors lust for food. The trenches, bunkers and firing holes where just left over hungi pits. "They're coming! Quick bro, jump in here!"

    In Rotorua, these pits filled with warm water which the warriors would sit in while hiding from the enemy. A steady diet of Colonel Cooks deep fried Moa gave them terrible gas which led to a lot of bubbles. The stench was unbearable but they dare jump out for fear of being shot. Instead, they inflicted much pain on one another by sparing. So there we have it. Maori actually invented what we know today as the spa pool.

  4. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Merde View Post
    Here I have to disagree with you.

    Sure they used these techiques against a force that was still using tactics from the Napoleonic wars but they cant lay claim to inventing them.

    You only have to look back to the Romans to see that they employed the same strategies apart from the firing holes for rifles, they had them for bows.

    The Normans built these hilltop fortifcations and centuries before them so did the Celts (2500-3000 years ago).

    The ancient Greeks, the ancient Chinese, the Egyptians, the Persians all had this type of fortification thousands of years befor it was used here in NZ.
    Within the concept of modern warfare using weapons produced by industry, Northland Maori can easily lay claim to being the first "indigenous people" to invent these concepts.

    You're completely ignoring the application of these inventions too.

    The firing holes were at the bottom of the pallisade. Not set into the side with people standing on firing platforms. The pallisades were built with a gap at the bottom and the blokes with the muskets stood in trenches to fire. The bunkers were designed to resist cannon fire, and by strategic fort, I'm not talking Pa, or a fortified villiage. The fort was entirely strategic. It served no other purpose than to make a British brigade drag their heavy weapons miles into uncharted bush to fight maybe half a dozen blokes, who would wait out the initial engagement, kill a couple of soldiers as the fort was stormed so that the Brits would withdraw, and by the time the second bombardment was over, the half a dozen blokes would be long gone, and planning where to build the next strategic fort, deeper in heavy bush.

    Intersecting herringbone trenches were not a feature of Roman or Norman warfare, and the Brits were so impressed with the concepts, they built models, wrote books, sotred them in the Imperial War Museum, and then promptly forgot all the lessons they learned and made the same mistakes over and over in WW1.

    Most of these ideas came from the brain of a Maori in his 70s with no access to the classics. Kawiti was a military genius.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morcs View Post
    Bullshit. WHat about poor farmers who have to give up their land, because some maori decided he was related to some chief 7 generations ago.

    Now seems to be the right time to introduce Alan Titford. Not heard of him..............Google is your friend.

    And by the way Morcs, you are quite correct
    Caution is not a substitute for skill :no

  6. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElCoyote View Post
    Now seems to be the right time to introduce Alan Titford. Not heard of him..............Google is your friend.

    And by the way Morcs, you are quite correct
    I posted a reference to this earlier this earlier but seems to have been ignored, not convienient maybe?
    "When you think of it,

    Lifes a bowl of ....MERDE"

  7. #202
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    No it sucked. The In-Laws lost a few 10s of acres 20 years ago too. Stuff does suck though.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElCoyote View Post
    Now seems to be the right time to introduce Alan Titford. Not heard of him..............Google is your friend.

    And by the way Morcs, you are quite correct
    Thankyou. I just didnt know where to look, but had heard of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by NinjaNanna View Post
    Wasn't me officer, honest, it was that morcs guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Littleman View Post
    Yeah I do recall, but dismissed it as being you when I saw both wheels on the ground.
    Quote Originally Posted by R6_kid View Post
    lulz, ever ridden a TL1000R? More to the point, ever ridden with teh Morcs? Didn't fink so.

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Merde View Post
    I posted a reference to this earlier this earlier but seems to have been ignored, not convienient maybe?
    Yes you did but the link is to Titford's own report which isn't exactly unbiased. Besides the guy got $3.25 million in 1995. Not bad, not bad at all. He took his money to Oz and I imagine has done well since. Good luck to him.

    This particular land dispute goes back to at least the 1940s, long before Titford came along: - here's a quote:

    "As Judge Acheson said in 1942, the circumstances of the case "cry aloud for redress... no matter what cost to the Crown this may involve" (A3:179)"

    Mr Titford conveniently ignores Judge Acheson's call decades before his own problems arose.

    Lets forget about Maori claims for a moment - recently I had a piece of land taken off my family for road widening. I was livid. I'm a lawyer. And I was stuck with it. No way out.

    Ultimately the Government can take your land for the greater good of the community. It sucks but its also fair enough. You get market compensation plus they will bend over backwards to do stuff to make it palatable. And you can go to the Land Valuation Tribunal to argue, so we aren't without rights.

    So....if we look at the Titford situation, recognise Titford himself came very late to the party (he must have known about the land disputes), recognise that he got generously paid, and it was for the greater public good....is it really a problem?

  10. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001 View Post


    Lets forget about Maori claims for a moment - recently I had a piece of land taken off my family for road widening. I was livid. I'm a lawyer. And I was stuck with it. No way out.
    You shoulda said that a Taniwha lived on it.

    You coulda got heeeaps for it bro.

  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    It was purely accidental. We all know the mighty warriors lust for food. The trenches, bunkers and firing holes where just left over hungi pits. "They're coming! Quick bro, jump in here!"

    In Rotorua, these pits filled with warm water which the warriors would sit in while hiding from the enemy. A steady diet of Colonel Cooks deep fried Moa gave them terrible gas which led to a lot of bubbles. The stench was unbearable but they dare jump out for fear of being shot. Instead, they inflicted much pain on one another by sparing. So there we have it. Maori actually invented what we know today as the spa pool.
    Bugger. I was about to patent the methane powered spa pool too.
    If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?



  12. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winston001 View Post
    Yes you did but the link is to Titford's own report which isn't exactly unbiased. Besides the guy got $3.25 million in 1995. Not bad, not bad at all. He took his money to Oz and I imagine has done well since. Good luck to him.

    This particular land dispute goes back to at least the 1940s, long before Titford came along: - here's a quote:

    "As Judge Acheson said in 1942, the circumstances of the case "cry aloud for redress... no matter what cost to the Crown this may involve" (A3:179)"

    Mr Titford conveniently ignores Judge Acheson's call decades before his own problems arose.

    Lets forget about Maori claims for a moment - recently I had a piece of land taken off my family for road widening. I was livid. I'm a lawyer. And I was stuck with it. No way out.

    Ultimately the Government can take your land for the greater good of the community. It sucks but its also fair enough. You get market compensation plus they will bend over backwards to do stuff to make it palatable. And you can go to the Land Valuation Tribunal to argue, so we aren't without rights.

    So....if we look at the Titford situation, recognise Titford himself came very late to the party (he must have known about the land disputes), recognise that he got generously paid, and it was for the greater public good....is it really a problem?
    I don't think the 3.5M figure is correct but with the burning of his dwelling and the sabotage of his equipment, not to mention the harrassment of his family by gutless thugs, I think he was entitled to every penny
    Caution is not a substitute for skill :no

  13. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi cowboy View Post
    ONCE APON A TIME MOUI WENT FISHING
    So did Maui, perhaps they shared a waka?
    Caution is not a substitute for skill :no

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solly View Post
    Chur chur cuz...that was "chur -iffic" of youse fullas
    Tanks for the "H" in Wanganui bro. Choice eh?
    Caution is not a substitute for skill :no

  15. #210
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    [QUOTE=duckonin;Land better with the Maori yeah right it would all be back in gorse in a few short years...[/QUOTE]


    Ask Quasi what state the Raglan Golf Course is in today, and that was the first piece of land supposedly "given back"
    Caution is not a substitute for skill :no

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