Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35

Thread: No, after you.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    6th October 2006 - 12:50
    Bike
    GSXR750G Daytona 955 Tiger DR650 ZRX1200
    Location
    Palmerston North
    Posts
    2,286

    No, after you.

    Having been in a period of enforced inaction due to an operation, I've had the good fortune to be able to catch up on some quiet reading time. At the moment I've nearly finished reading Backblocks America, Jo and Gareth Morgan's excellent account of their biking adventure around the US, Canada, and Mexico.

    One chapter that NZ lawmakers could really take heed of and entitled 'No, after you', was particulary pertinent, and having driven around most of the US myself, made me very nostalgic for the good ol US common sense approach to driving. The Yanks may have their faults, but they are polite and tend not to treat all drivers as idiots.

    Here's a few examples.

    One thing we noticed right away about biking in the US - the home of the automobile - is that motorist behaviour is infinitely more courteous than it is back home. While the traffic tends to move a lot faster than is permitted in New Zealand there's a notable lack of aggression in everything they do.

    Then again, we've noticed the same thing in most of the countries we've travelled in.

    The thing that America has in common with Germany, say, or Bulgaria and that sets it apart from New Zealand is that there is far less regulation of driver behaviour. Drivers are expected to be responsible for their own actions and dependant upon the courtesey of others. Rather than relying on a rule to tell them how to behave, they are guided by the principle of cooperation.

    It's a clever discretion of the rule makers. Regulatory latitude gives rise to a 'do as you would be done by' ethos.

    Drivers have no choice but to make decisions themselves and, surprise, surprise, they rise to the challenge. It turns out there's no need for a rule for every situation. People work it out among themselves.

    Better yet, courtesy - like king of the road aggression - is infectious and prevails in every situation drivers encounter.

    There were plenty of examples of how lightly the hand of regulation sits - and how much faith the regulator has in the capacity of individuals to make intelligent choices for themselves. If you're at a red light but you can turn to the right (left in NZ) without danger, you can go ahead and do it. On the open road a speed limit can be exceeded by up to 15 kmh without placing you at risk of receiving a ticket.

    This convention had us stumped until, sick of being passed while riding piously at the limit, Jo decided to interrogate a radar gunning cop about how the system worked. Our Kiwi paranoia naturally had us thinking every mile per hour over the limit would see us stung a tidy sum in fines.

    'Well little lady' CHiPs responded 'over here we like to see you get from A to B as quickly as possible. So as long as the traffic is orderly we don't worry too much about the speed. Way we figure it, highways are supposed to be of service to the travelling public. I'm just after the maniacs'.

    Jo congatulated him on the sanity of this approach to law enforcement and made to leave.

    'Hey!' he called after her. 'Make sure you keep up with the traffic. You'll be safe that way'.

    The only time Jo did get pulled up was in Montana, by a cop who saw rain a coming and was worried that she didn't have her wet weather gear on.

    'You'll get five minutes down the road' he told her, 'then them clouds are going to open right up. You'll be soaked through'.

    He finished by asking if she'd like some maps of the area! Does this seem a long way from cop behaviour in New Zealand?

    Motorcyclists in many states of America are free to choose whether or not to wear helmets. We wore ours most of the time but it was great having the right to shed them every now and then at our discretion and feel the wind in our hair. Remember when it was like that in New Zealand? That was before we sank into a swill of smothering maternalistic supervision.

    Stifling over-regulation such as the laws that prevail in New Zealand creates automatons; morons who need rules and regulations to determine their behaviour for them. People lose the skills that the feedom to make decisions fosters. Sure, lower speeds lower the road toll - but so would banning driving altogether.

    This is not to say the power of the state in America is not there, hovering in the background. Their road code has fewer rules but it also has far higher fines - and there is also the fear of being sued if you screw up. Responsibility is very much on individuals - the law treats them almost as though they're grown ups.

    Marvelous, and almost makes me feel like doing 106

  2. #2
    Join Date
    4th August 2005 - 16:50
    Bike
    SOLD! BOO hOO HOO ;-(
    Location
    Mooloo Cuntry!
    Posts
    173
    Quote Originally Posted by 86GSXR View Post
    Drivers are expected to be responsible for their own actions and dependant upon the courtesey of others.
    Wouldn't it be nice. I think the problem we will have is turning back the clock to rid ourselves of the idiots who think the open road is Daytona speedway and who think they ARE the only ones on the road!

    [quote=86GSXR;1129264] He finished by asking if she'd like some maps of the area! Does this seem a long way from cop behaviour in New Zealand? [quote]

    In saying that, I got a ticket yesterday (doing 116 on an open road, light traffic, rural, a little damp) and the very nice lady cop said she would make it 115 which takes me down a level. Thanks nice lady cop.

    And I didn't think I was speeding, most modern cars cruise at 110 and feel like they are standing still?
    BlackAdda

  3. #3
    Join Date
    25th January 2006 - 15:33
    Bike
    Honda NT650 The Stealth Bomber
    Location
    New Plymouth
    Posts
    571
    Wow! Sounds like Utopia!

    But I'd feel completely naked without a helmet - about as comfortable as riding my sickle in jandals . . . I've got visions of a skull cracking like an egg on the pavement.

    Were the roads a lot different from NZ though? As in less windy and cramped? Most of Unzuds roads are like goat tracks - could that have something to do with lower speed limits and heavier policing of laws?

    There does seem to be a correlation between over legislation and increased fuckwittery on the roads and in life in general.

    I can definitely see a future for me as a grumpy ole codger . . .
    Illuc ivi, illud feci.

    Buggrim, Buggrit.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    29th March 2006 - 21:15
    Bike
    Triumph
    Location
    Easy Street
    Posts
    715
    I put it down to the fact that in New Zealand we have a small population which is easier to enforce.As well our roads are different(not that Ive travelled over there).We dont have hundreds of k's of long straights or 5 lanes on either side of the road ..which would definatly get the braincells working..nor do we sue as readilly(or for silly reasons) as the Americans do.Great read tho Alister ..thankyou for the insight from a traveller.In saying all of the above I dont think I would want to be caught by a US officer if I was a bit naughty!
    <span style=font-family: Century Gothic><font size=4><font color=DarkOrchid>Live and let live</font></font></span>

  5. #5
    Join Date
    30th March 2004 - 11:00
    Bike
    2001 RC46
    Location
    Norfshaw
    Posts
    10,455
    Blog Entries
    17
    We went to the Sultanate of Kalifornicatia at Christmas, and on the whole, found driving there much more relaxing, due to the other drivers' behaviour. (Mebbe this is because with gun usage being rife, they're scared someone'll shoot them if they're rude?)
    The first example was when we exited from the rental car place at SF Airport. I *knew* I had to keep right, but when you're lost, you tend to be looking around to see where to go, and drive instinctively, which is what I did. Straight into three or four lanes of oncoming traffic.
    No big deal - everyone stopped, no-one tootled me (melodiously or vigorously), and I sorted my act out and continued.

    The second revelation was on day two: I realised I wasn't sure about rules'n'regulations, so I approached a bike cop (bicycle, not motorbike, complete with cop-issue lycra gear!) in San Jose, and asked him about rules at intersections. I was amazed to learn that although there are rules that govern who gives way (yeild to the person on your left, etc.), the primary one seemed to be courtesy: whoever arrived first had right of way.

    There was only one (1) time in 8 days that I saw rudeness of any kind. On Friday evening in LA, driving back from Universal Studios, I went to pull out from an on-ramp into traffic, and some mental bastidge (prolly a D'Aucklander) blasted his horns at me as he weaved through the traffic at well above the speed everyone else was doing. Generally (even in this rush hour), the traffic flowed well, everyone behaved, and it was much, much nicer than driving in D'Auckland.

    Even though the speed limit is ostensibly 55 mph on the freeways in many places, cruising at up to 100 wasn't a biggie, so from time to time, we did. The only fiercely enforced speed limits we encountered were coming down out of the Los Angeles hills after driving through Angeles Forest (largely a misnomer - it was mostly lowish scrub), there were flashing speed signs (35, IIRC), speed cameras, and cops lurking.
    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  6. #6
    Join Date
    8th November 2004 - 11:00
    Bike
    GSXR 750 the wanton hussy
    Location
    Not in Napier now
    Posts
    12,765
    Quote Originally Posted by 86GSXR View Post
    Responsibility is very much on individuals - the law treats them almost as though they're grown ups.
    Aaah, remember when NZ was like that? Nanny state do-gooders would have been laughed out of town. The insidious nature of legislation in all areas of life is NOT a good thing.
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    13th April 2007 - 18:26
    Bike
    06 scrambler,xrl,
    Location
    In town. Crap
    Posts
    4,155
    Blog Entries
    1
    Nice post 86.
    Possibly the link to considerate driving can be linked to a nations approach in handling its citizens. Example:
    Travelling/riding in places like India, Turkey, etc may seem like a suicidal dance of machinery and humans...until you join the throng. Beeps on horns, and arms waving you onward are the norm, and extremely efficient. The drivers want to get to there destinations quickly and safely, so assist each other with merging, passing etc.
    However if you rise above your position in the traffic food chain, chances are you will get wasted.
    And this is where there society beliefs step in. Basically, they don't give a stuff. You made the call to be a fuckwit, so justice is serviced. They will push you to one side and go about their business. Not all life is cheap, just lives of the traveling morons.
    I kinda like their approach.
    I hav'nt travelled in the USA, so wouldn't compare my experience in Asia with that of American rules. Possibly there is a population link though.
    Maybe NZ is like some short people, always trying to get noticed, and our driving reflects this. Larger nations are like Joe average. Just getting on with getting on.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    17th May 2007 - 11:49
    Bike
    Honda CB750F1980, 955i Daytona 02
    Location
    Manawatu
    Posts
    491
    Quote Originally Posted by 86GSXR View Post
    Having been in a period of enforced inaction due to an operation, I've had the good fortune to be able to catch up on some quiet reading time. At the moment I've nearly finished reading Backblocks America, Jo and Gareth Morgan's excellent account of their biking adventure around the US, Canada, and Mexico.


    Marvelous, and almost make me feel like doing 106

    sounds like you have been doing some serious work on that book

    106 you, I find that hard to believe, just watch the bloody sutures

    Sounds like a real commonsense approach to traffic policing, perhaps we had better send the met a copy too.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    25th January 2006 - 15:33
    Bike
    Honda NT650 The Stealth Bomber
    Location
    New Plymouth
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by tri boy View Post
    Maybe NZ is like some short people, always trying to get noticed, and our driving reflects this. Larger nations are like Joe average. Just getting on with getting on.
    Good point.

    Or also perhaps because New Zealand has been relatively empty for most of
    it's history, and only in the last 30 years have we had things such as traffic jams, so we don't have an ingrained culture on how to behave.

    So we expect to get were we want to go immediately, with no hold ups or interferances, and we get irate when those things occur.
    Illuc ivi, illud feci.

    Buggrim, Buggrit.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    30th March 2004 - 11:00
    Bike
    2001 RC46
    Location
    Norfshaw
    Posts
    10,455
    Blog Entries
    17
    I always thought it was summat to do with our pioneering heritage/spirit, but things like the aggro that occurs in passing lanes doesn't fit that idea, whereas the "short person" theory does.
    It would certainly explain why it pisses some people off to be passed. But I suspect the "short person" syndrome is more a manhood than stature thing.

    Maybe I should test that - next time I pass someone, hold up a sign that says "Ha ha!! My dick is bigger than yours!"

    ... and that's what I think.

    Or summat.


    Or maybe not...

    Dunno really....


  11. #11
    Join Date
    6th March 2006 - 15:57
    Bike
    Rolls Royce RB211
    Location
    Martinborough
    Posts
    3,041
    It's a chicken or the egg situation isn't it?
    Do we have such comparatively draconian legislation because we are shitty drivers.....or are we shitty drivers because we've been dumbed down by such legislation?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    8th November 2004 - 11:00
    Bike
    GSXR 750 the wanton hussy
    Location
    Not in Napier now
    Posts
    12,765
    Quote Originally Posted by janno View Post
    Good point.

    Or also perhaps because New Zealand has been relatively empty for most of
    it's history, and only in the last 30 years have we had things such as traffic jams, so we don't have an ingrained culture on how to behave.

    So we expect to get were we want to go immediately, with no hold ups or interferances, and we get irate when those things occur.
    Or because we (were) a nation of DIYers, we are increasingly frustrated by the plethora of laws that say we can't now? Roadrage is the same as giving hell to some officious little prat with a clipboard (perhaps the one saying that you can't remove that tree on YOUR land that is dropping crap in YOUR guttering cos the RMA "says you can't"?)
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    8th November 2004 - 11:00
    Bike
    GSXR 750 the wanton hussy
    Location
    Not in Napier now
    Posts
    12,765
    Slowpoke - I suspect that your signature holds the answer
    Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    9th November 2006 - 18:42
    Bike
    Ducati V4S Streetfighter
    Location
    Orewa, Auckland
    Posts
    4,120
    Blog Entries
    1
    That was an interesting read there 86. Cheers.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    25th January 2006 - 15:33
    Bike
    Honda NT650 The Stealth Bomber
    Location
    New Plymouth
    Posts
    571
    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    Or because we (were) a nation of DIYers, we are increasingly frustrated by the plethora of laws that say we can't now? Roadrage is the same as giving hell to some officious little prat with a clipboard (perhaps the one saying that you can't remove that tree on YOUR land that is dropping crap in YOUR guttering cos the RMA "says you can't"?)
    Well, I agree with that, too.

    But how to remedy the situation?

    How long would chaos reign if the various nonsensical laws were scrapped, before things got on an even keel? Considering the "it's not my fault" and "he made me do it" and "society owes me" generation that has come through?

    Be interesting if we were able to give it a go and conduct some huge sort of social experiment. I'm for it, anyway.
    Illuc ivi, illud feci.

    Buggrim, Buggrit.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •