What is the difference...

[Aaron_newrider]

Thats what makes this thread interesting... under the guise of "supporting" "boyracer" activities, He's actually talking about the same behaviour that labels riders "fuckwit bikers"

I'll support it if it's in a safe environment. In no post have I said boyracing on the street is ok. There are safe environments out there but not as easily accessable to young people as they could be and not targeted towards the boy racers to get them off the restreet.

I agree, if you do it on the street you are fuckwit, putting you life and others in risk. so lets get them off the street and on a track/drag stretch.

[mctshirt]

How is the public supposed to tell the difference?

The good guys do the Kiwi Biker wave

[tigertim20]

But many of the young men loosely called "boy racers" are not really into racing at all.

They just want to be able to hang out with some mates , show off their cars, and (if they're lucky) pull a chick.

Now , honestly, all you old folk, cast your minds back. And when I say "Remember a certain Mercury Coupe/Ford Zephyr/Valiant Charger", doesn't it ring a few bells?

Yes sure, they're going to be a bit noisey about it. So send them off somewhere where they're not going to wake people up. Not many folk sleeping along the Te Rapa straight .

And yes, they're obnoxious insufferable smart arses. Gee, I was too at that age.

Most of them aren't looking for anything as serious as organised competative motorsport (some may be into that, and good on them). They just want to hang out , brag to their mates, compare cars, impress the chick with the big tits, have a few beers and go home (preferably with said chick).Actually, pretty much the same as a bunch of bikers after a ride.

Stupid stunts like spreading diesel on the raod - clobber their arses right hard. Hooning around in the small hours where people are trying to sleep, ditto. But I don't think it's fair or natural to expect them to behave like grey cardigan wearing old fossils. I wasn't like that when I was their age. Nor were you. Old heads, young shoulders n stuff.

the ones who dont race, drag drift and be generally obnoxious annoying little sods arent the problem. never have been. I was responding to ANR's assertion that it is up to the [police etc to organize events especially for those who are into it.

And to Aaron, you said something about a raceway being 70km away, that would be less than the distance most of these morons travel every thursday friday and saturday night round and round and round town anyway. a 140 km round trip in a cgae is bugger all, but here is what it comes down to for you
FINE for loud exhaust $150
Fine having a passenger $400 (each passenger)
Dangerous driving, can be a grand or more, plus loss of licence
I could go on and list the costs for various fines you would incur for driving like a dick, but bottom line, $150 for a track day is still gonna be cheaper in the long run (and probably in the short term too.)

As for 'but I dont know where to go', ask around. Go INTO the speedway and ask around. All the boyracers seem to be able to rally around, and find out where illegal drags and races are gonna be, why cant you channel that energy into finding out about track days, or looking into speedway etc?
show a bit of initiative!

[jono035]

Actually, it's quite easy. Someone who wakes me up at 3 am is either a boi-racer of a fukwit-biker. If what awakens me has four wheels, the former, if two , the latter.

If it doesn't wake me up in the small hours , it's neither.

Boy racer has ceased to be a meaningful term. It now simply means someone 9usually young) of whom the speaker (usually old fossilised and bigoted) disapproves.

As someone who drives a car that would normally have him tagged as a boy-racer, I agree entirely.

It has become a term for people to use when they want to refer to people they don't like but in a way that makes others automatically assume that the people referred to are hooligans and up to something illegal.

[jono035]

And to Aaron, you said something about a raceway being 70km away, that would be less than the distance most of these morons travel every thursday friday and saturday night round and round and round town anyway. a 140 km round trip in a cgae is bugger all, but here is what it comes down to for you
FINE for loud exhaust $150
Fine having a passenger $400 (each passenger)
Dangerous driving, can be a grand or more, plus loss of licence
I could go on and list the costs for various fines you would incur for driving like a dick, but bottom line, $150 for a track day is still gonna be cheaper in the long run (and probably in the short term too.)

I agree with the sentiment, but I think you're over-estimating how often people actually get charged with these offenses. I severely doubt that your average weekend-inner-city-drag-racer is getting $150 fines every weekend. And if they're anything like my friends 'boy racer' younger brother, then they will never pay them anyway and just lean on mum and dad to help them out when the big bad judge tries to send them to jail...

[Squid]

There are Car Enthusiasts and there are Boy Racers........

How is the public supposed to tell the difference?

Actually come to think of it with the current gubberment the boy racers could soon be the ones with the squished ve-hicles.

[tigertim20]

I agree with the sentiment, but I think you're over-estimating how often people actually get charged with these offenses. I severely doubt that your average weekend-inner-city-drag-racer is getting $150 fines every weekend. And if they're anything like my friends 'boy racer' younger brother, then they will never pay them anyway and just lean on mum and dad to help them out when the big bad judge tries to send them to jail...

I wasn't intending to say that they would get fined regularly, I was just pointing out the risk. I was probably better off pointing out that the cost difference between driving around town all night, and fucking your tyres from burnouts etc, and that of going to a track day is next to fuckall. My bad for not being clearer!

[jono035]

I wasn't intending to say that they would get fined regularly, I was just pointing out the risk. I was probably better off pointing out that the cost difference between driving around town all night, and fucking your tyres from burnouts etc, and that of going to a track day is next to fuckall. My bad for not being clearer!

Yeah, very true, driving around in circles anyway, might as well do it at speed!

[Dare]

the ones who dont race, drag drift and be generally obnoxious annoying little sods arent the problem. never have been. I was responding to ANR's assertion that it is up to the [police etc to organize events especially for those who are into it.

And to Aaron, you said something about a raceway being 70km away, that would be less than the distance most of these morons travel every thursday friday and saturday night round and round and round town anyway. a 140 km round trip in a cgae is bugger all, but here is what it comes down to for you
FINE for loud exhaust $150
Fine having a passenger $400 (each passenger)
Dangerous driving, can be a grand or more, plus loss of licence
I could go on and list the costs for various fines you would incur for driving like a dick, but bottom line, $150 for a track day is still gonna be cheaper in the long run (and probably in the short term too.)

As for 'but I dont know where to go', ask around. Go INTO the speedway and ask around. All the boyracers seem to be able to rally around, and find out where illegal drags and races are gonna be, why cant you channel that energy into finding out about track days, or looking into speedway etc?
show a bit of initiative!

I was in the car once with a few others when a fine for $800 was written out, I had a full license (for under 2 years) at the time but the lady in question wanted to be at the wheel. Could have been more but the copper was being 'nice'.

I find myself on Aarons side here, telling him to go to a speedway is not the same as solving the more general problem. For one thing speedway never appealed to me, I like to be able to turn in more than one direction. Drifting did appeal but never had the money for it. Drags also didn't appeal, handbrakies in wet carparks did.

A large part of boy racer culture is being just that bit outside the law, much like gangs and some bikers. Taking it to a track is sanitising the whole idea and yes those who are truly interested in the TECHNIQUE might be able to afford to hone their skills on a track (hey if daddy buys them an m3 then why the hell not, but I suspect daddy doesn't know about the tyre marks on SH16) but that is rather missing the point. Those who are into the CULTURE aren't generally that interested in the driving part, apart from believing they are all better than Fernando Alonso. They are more interested in the blow off valves and the girls in the passenger seat and the million watt sound system, none of which have anything to do with a track.

A discussion we had the other day went something like this, so called 'youths' have a certain competitive rebellious energy which has to be dissapated somehow. Unfortunately in our current society everything interesting/dangerous is or will soon be either illegal or incredibly expensive. Drugs, violence, boy racers, etc, etc, all fit into this universal trait and in Britain there is now almost outright war between council house youths and the so called keepers of the peace. It's easy to say take it to a track when you are thirty something and the smell of the pies in the oven are wafting over. But it's like internet piracy, no one has quite thought of a satisfactory solution.

Personally I respect the law, when it is looking, the rest of the time they are more... Guidelines.
Face it, put the cookies on the top shelf and your kids are gonna find a ladder. There HAS to be danger, and as such people are going to get hurt. But the more you pressure people to be on the straight and narrow the more they do rebel when they have had enough. This is how revolutions are started people! And also why Japanese businessmen do 300kmh runs in Tokyo, we are not robots and do not deserve to be treated as such.

[Katman]

And in the same 'what is the difference' vein.............

If a motorcyclist, through an act of stupidity kills another motorcyclist is there any difference between that and a Boy Racer losing control of their car while doing a doughnut and killing an innocent bystander?

[jono035]

And in the same 'what is the difference' vein.............

If a motorcyclist, through an act of stupidity kills another motorcyclist is there any difference between that and a Boy Racer losing control of their car while doing a doughnut and killing an innocent bystander?

Assuming you assign equal stupidity to each act then no. If neither of the victims were doing anything that would have normally been dangerous then the situation is the same.

[tigertim20]

I find myself on Aarons side here, telling him to go to a speedway is not the same as solving the more general problem. For one thing speedway never appealed to me, I like to be able to turn in more than one direction. Drifting did appeal but never had the money for it. Drags also didn't appeal, handbrakies in wet carparks did. the point I was making is that there are ways of doing what you want without breaking the law and being a dangerous cunt to the rest of the community. also, maybe you shouldn't be driving round in ANYTHING, until you can prove you drive round a simple oval track at speed on dirt, without losing control. I think many of these idiots would be too scared to drive on a real race track, cos all their mates would see the skills they DONT have...

A large part of boy racer culture is being just that bit outside the law, much like gangs and some bikers. Taking it to a track is sanitising the whole idea and yes those who are truly interested in the TECHNIQUE might be able to afford to hone their skills on a track It doesnt have to have anything to do with skill. just go have FUN, film it, put it on youtube, brag to ya mates that you were fastest that day... but that is rather missing the point. Those who are into the CULTURE aren't generally that interested in the driving part, apart from believing they are all better than Fernando Alonso. They are more interested in the blow off valves and the girls in the passenger seat and the million watt sound system, none of which have anything to do with a track. then why are they driving like fuggheads everywhere if they arent really interested in driving?

A discussion we had the other day went something like this, so called 'youths' have a certain competitive rebellious energy which has to be dissapated somehow. Unfortunately in our current society everything interesting/dangerous is or will soon be either illegal or incredibly expensive. Drugs, violence, boy racers, etc, etc, all fit into this universal trait and in Britain there is now almost outright war between council house youths and the so called keepers of the peace. It's easy to say take it to a track when you are thirty something... try again, I am not some 30 or 40 year old bugger whinging about the younguns of today, I do track days, my friends do too. suggesting trackdays for racing, drifting or just fucking around and speedway etc, is a way of giving them a chance to do what they want to do, without being dangerous, endangering peoples lives and being a bloody nuisance.

Personally I respect the law, when it is looking, the rest of the time they are more... Guidelines.
Face it, put the cookies on the top shelf and your kids are gonna find a ladder. There HAS to be danger, and as such people are going to get hurt. yes. all of this is present on a track day too. twenty cars hammering it round the track at redline blah blah blah Either accept, and take note of the LEGAL ways of having fun, or shut the fuck up and stop whinging when you get fined $1000 your car crushed, and your arse nailed to the wall because you behaved like a cock on the road.

..........

[tigertim20]

And in the same 'what is the difference' vein.............

If a motorcyclist, through an act of stupidity kills another motorcyclist is there any difference between that and a Boy Racer losing control of their car while doing a doughnut and killing an innocent bystander?

why even ask such a silly question? if someone is doing something stupid, and kills someone... I mean shit, do i even need to finish this sentence? there are accidents, where something unforseeable occurs, due simply to 'fate' or because a circumstance beyond the control of those involved occurred, and then there are people who kill because they were selfish, stupid, ignorant and dangerous on the road.

[jono035]

..........

I think he was meaning that the driving is just how it manifests itself and that it is actually more about doing the modern equivalent of showing off your courage and hunting prowess by taking out a saber tooth tiger with a flint-ended spear.

Basically doing something dangerous and rebellious to get the adrenaline flowing and show the other people around that you have courage and strength.

You may say that track days are dangerous, but it is a different kind of danger and one that isn't as palpable. Not to mention there isn't much rebellion either. The lack of that combination is what makes it less appealing than being an idiot out on the street.

[Dare]

My oh my aren't we getting riled up!

In the interests of keeping this civil and my points somewhat constructive...

Quote:
the point I was making is that there are ways of doing what you want without breaking the law and being a dangerous cunt to the rest of the community.

Yes, there are ways to do what you want without breaking the law, read my post as to why breaking the law is part of the culture. I don't condone it I am simply informing, so if you want to do something about it please suggest a method of making the legal way more attractive to the boy racer... Seeing as that is kind of the only way your going to be doing anything other than whinging about these 'dangerous cunts'

also, maybe you shouldn't be driving round in ANYTHING, until you can prove you drive round a simple oval track at speed on dirt, without losing control. I think many of these idiots would be too scared to drive on a real race track, cos all their mates would see the skills they DONT have...

Maybe so, maybe there should be stricter laws concerning which weetbix packets come with licenses in them but that has been discussed elsewhere...

It doesnt have to have anything to do with skill. just go have FUN, film it, put it on youtube, brag to ya mates that you were fastest that day...

What? With the skills you don't have? RE: Above.

then why are they driving like fuggheads everywhere if they arent really interested in driving?

Uhm, if they were interesting in driving they wouldnt drive like 'fuggheads' would they? I'm interested in driving and I make a point of being a better driver than the majority of people I share the road with

More to the point they aren't interested in driving, they are interested in what will impress their mates

try again, I am not some 30 or 40 year old bugger whinging about the younguns of today, I do track days, my friends do too. suggesting trackdays for racing, drifting or just fucking around and speedway etc, is a way of giving them a chance to do what they want to do, without being dangerous, endangering peoples lives and being a bloody nuisance.

That's totally fine, now tell me why boy racers don't do just that? Are they just ignorant of track days?

yes. all of this is present on a track day too. twenty cars hammering it round the track at redline blah blah blah Either accept, and take note of the LEGAL ways of having fun, or shut the fuck up and stop whinging when you get fined $1000 your car crushed, and your arse nailed to the wall because you behaved like a cock on the road.

Are you talking to me or just in general? Because I don't recall whinging, or behaving like a cock on the road