Settling Maori claims. Someone explain.

[tri boy]

My lot (Ngati Hotu) were the original inhabitants of the Central North Island.

They were primarily butchered by Ngati Tuwharetoa, but also Ngai Tuhoe, Ngati Rangitihi, Ngati Whare, Ngati Manawa and Ngati Whakaue.

You lot can't fight for shit.
Were you the runt of the tribe litter?

[Winston001]

It's really funny that they want their own justice system too, does the Government not have one that already works?.....

Native Americans and Inuit have separate justice systems within their territories.


So does the IRA.....

[Finn]

Actually, capitalists defend property rights.

Thats one of the basics of capitalisim.

Socialists and Communists on the other hand, do not defend property rights ... the individual or familys right to own property or land is subjugated to the state.

Ouch! Direct hit right to Idle's nuts. Good work.

[outlawtorn]

Native Americans and Inuit have separate justice systems within their territories.


So does the IRA.....

Wow, didn't know that, thanks. But I do hope the Maori's aren't comparing NZ to the US or Canada, we have an issue with physical land space, so there isn't that much to go around...

[Lissa]

As I understand it, (which could be wrong) the English came over and because they were losing the war decided to set up the treaty, which not all tribes signed or even understood.

I really don't take it personally that the Maori are wanting compensation from the Government, it is compensation from the Crown (England) that they should get. My ancestors came over to start a new life, on land that really wasn't theirs, they worked hard and made a life but as I understand were enticed to NZ with false information from the English in the first place.

For some reason I never learnt a thing in History Lessons at school about the Maori Wars or the Treaty so I am ignorant of a lot of facts.

Just like I am proud of my heritage, I can trace my family tree back one thousand years to the viking raids in England. But I do not consider myself English, Irish or Scandinavian I am a New Zealander. But as I embrace my heritage so do the Maoris, and so they should.

This is such an emotive issue, but I wouldn't bag the extreme activists in with the whole population of Maori's.

[Bonez]

As I understand it, (which could be wrong) the English came over and because they were losing the war

It was get in before the French and the Yanks. Also not often mentioned was to have some control over the colonist etc. putting them under Englands big stick.

Maori selling of land was a different concept to European.

Pom1- can I buy some land?
Maori- sure bro, have this for a few muskets, blankets and a bag of tea.
Pom1-Yippy!!
Pom2- Can I buy some land?
Maori-Sure cuz, have this I'll take wahene you've got there.
Pom2-Praise the lord!
Pom1 and Pom2 work away at each end of the property and bump into each
other.
Pom1-Hey this is MY land.
Pom2-No it's not it's mine I bought it off Henare.
Pom1-So did I.
Henare hears the ruckus rushes over and asked "Whats the problem yuse fallas?
Both poms tell their stories.
Henare thinks about it and goes "Hmmmm, in fact you pommy gits this is MY land You just have the use of it you don't own it.

[davereid]

As I understand it, (which could be wrong) the English came over and because they were losing the war decided to set up the treaty, which not all tribes signed or even understood.

By 1840, many maori had been to europe, and many had stopped on the way at french and dutch occupied territories.

Maori were concerned about the behaviour of settlers, particularly the french, who it appeared did not negotiate or purchase land, they just took it.

Plus, the traditional balance of power inside maoridom was shifting, as some tribes were proving adept at obtaining muskets, and were increasingly capable of threatening previously dominant tribes.

Maori petitioned King William for the brits to sort it out - the treaty was the brits reluctant solution.

Certainly many maori did not sign, but maori were always at war with each other, and the dominant chiefs virtually all signed.

There was much confusion as to some phrases, particularly those regarding government.

[wbks]

I can trace my family tree back one thousand years to the viking raids in England.

How did ya do that?

[popelli]

It's really funny that they want their own justice system too, does the Government not have one that already works?

can the victim decide which justice system is used, if so then this is a great idea

[oldrider]

By 1840, many maori had been to europe, and many had stopped on the way at french and dutch occupied territories.

Maori were concerned about the behaviour of settlers, particularly the french, who it appeared did not negotiate or purchase land, they just took it.

Plus, the traditional balance of power inside maoridom was shifting, as some tribes were proving adept at obtaining muskets, and were increasingly capable of threatening previously dominant tribes.

Maori petitioned King William for the brits to sort it out - the treaty was the brits reluctant solution.

Certainly many maori did not sign, but maori were always at war with each other, and the dominant chiefs virtually all signed.

There was much confusion as to some phrases, particularly those regarding government.

Lets not argue about the accuracy of how this all happened but just dwell on the fact that it did happen!

From the signing of the treaty we "New Zealanders" (people who before this date were Maori and Pakeha) stepped forward as "One land, one people" into a very bright future together.

Granted there have been many mistakes made along the way but these are trying to be systematically addressed!

What right do Maori have to go their own separate way now?

I hear (some) "Maori" constantly accusing the rest of New Zealand to "Honour the treaty"!

I cannot help but ask my self if it is really a case of "the pot calling the kettle black"!

No one ever said this process of making the treaty work would be easy but the originators obviously believed it would be worth it!

They did their bit, are we doing our part to the best of our ability, or are we the weak link in a 169 year old chain?

Ask yourself, not what is wrong with the treaty but what you can do to make it work!

It is folly to expect the treaty to be anything other than a "founding document" that gave "us" an opportunity to begin to move forward.

The real document should be written in the heads and the hearts of the participants, that is, every single individual New Zealander!

The future depends upon "us", lets not ruin the opportunity of getting it right, our children are depending on us FFS!

[Robert Taylor]

The culture of blame is alive and well. I have Maori friends, I even have socialist friends ( god forbid! ) But when they try and apportion their grievances on me thats when I take humbrage as all too often its just a gravy train ( for those at the top mostly ) and all successive governments are guilty of perpetuating that. We are all kiwis for gods sake and many are milkshakes, not of their own choosing. ( That is in no way intended to be derogatory ) That fact alone absolves them of the credibility to have grievances against the white man as in the end event it smacks of racial hypocrisy.
There are far more important things for the crown to be spending money on, such as a credible front line defence force to defend our large oceanic economic zone from future threat. That is something we should all collectively be concerned about, irresoective of genetic composition.

[Molly]

can the victim decide which justice system is used, if so then this is a great idea

For that you need to look at restorative justice and ideas around victim / offender mediation and family group conferencing. Some of this has roots in Aboriginal and Maori conflict settling mechanisms. Victims are given a voice and can have some say in reparation / sentencing.

[Robert Taylor]

nope; that's the crime capitalists commit, the kind that damage large numbers of ordinary people but in which the perp and the friends of the perp who benefit from the crime get off scott free or with lighter sentences that a burglar who steals a stereo, tv etc

amazing that people will throw stones at specific petty crimes and attribute them to one group or another but when some really big crimes are identified as comitted by capitalists and it's pointed out that these crimes are lightly punished with the proceeds often never returned; the same people whine that it's kust another crime.

face it; much of the land theft in NZ's past directly benefitted capitalists and their decendents but ordinary people have to pay for the crimes as their rellies carry on with the proceeds of the crime keeping them wealthy.

Well history has proven a number of things,

Yes indeed the excesses of capitalism are not very pretty, reason unchecked greed.

And yes indeed the excesses of unchecked socialism / communism are equally unpretty. Reason, unchecked greed or a thirst for total control.

I remember in Britain a certain Neil Kinnock and his wife were always decrying the fruits of capitalism and the trappings of political power. Now both he and his wife have very cosy jobs courtesy of taxpayers. HYPOCRITES.

You and I are polar opposites politically but I also believe have a sense of fairplay. Its all about balance.

[98tls]

There are far more important things for the crown to be spending money on, such as a credible front line defence force to defend our large oceanic economic zone from future threat. That is something we should all collectively be concerned about, irresoective of genetic composition.

The bros have at least stepped up on that front,they wont let anyone get past the foreshore.

[crazyhorse]

It will never end in NZ - too many weak people in this country!