4stroke oil

[barty5]

yeah i realise clutch fucks oil real fast, but that post was in reference to the previous post saying about friction modificators etc vs clutch plates. this is not an issue for honda "4 stroke oil" which i interpret as 4 stroke engine oil.


and thinking about this topic, it does work out cheaper to run a 2 stroke. i use 750ml's of oil to 30 litres of fuel. for "engine oil" - we will leave a trans out of the equation as it makes no difference if its 2 stroke or 4
for a 4 stoke to use 30 litres of fuel i'd suggest will be running about 7 hours. which sounds like longer than how often you should be changing the 4 stroke engine oil. therefore using about 750mls of oil to every 30 litres of fuel

and then theres the filters on top. plus the actual effort of warming, draining, extra wear of alloy threads, replacing filter, discarding old filter - (see emmissions and all that shit) re-filling / spilling
lol theres a good arguement for the 2 stroke lol

fuck you waste a lot a time thinkin up reasons not to own a 4stroke anyone would think you where jealous.

[B0000M]

fuck you waste a lot a time thinkin up reasons not to own a 4stroke anyone would think you where jealous.

lol. na, thats why i just sold the only one i had.

it was cheese that got me started on that idea actually, i just did the maths to see for myself.

[green machine]

fuck you waste a lot a time thinkin up reasons not to own a 4stroke anyone would think you where jealous.

Bordering on obsessed.............lol

[Rupe]

yeah i realise clutch fucks oil real fast, but that post was in reference to the previous post saying about friction modificators etc vs clutch plates. this is not an issue for honda "4 stroke oil" which i interpret as 4 stroke engine oil.


and thinking about this topic, it does work out cheaper to run a 2 stroke. i use 750ml's of oil to 30 litres of fuel. for "engine oil" - we will leave a trans out of the equation as it makes no difference if its 2 stroke or 4
for a 4 stoke to use 30 litres of fuel i'd suggest will be running about 7 hours. which sounds like longer than how often you should be changing the 4 stroke engine oil. therefore using about 750mls of oil to every 30 litres of fuel

and then theres the filters on top. plus the actual effort of warming, draining, extra wear of alloy threads, replacing filter, discarding old filter - (see emmissions and all that shit) re-filling / spilling

lol theres a good arguement for the 2 stroke lol

Doesn't really work for my bike as it uses the oil for the clutch aswell. And I would get far more than 7hrs for 30l.

Some people like 4strokes some like 2strokes this thread was not ment to be about comparing them, It's boring. Please keep it on topic and we might get something usefull out of it for a change.

[B0000M]

yea, you're right, im still waiting for a scientific based answer as to why motorcycle oil is "special" when according to the honda manual and the info my semi reliable source has given me- pretty much any engine oil not made in the 1940s is fine - (sg or above), all the oils i could find on the shelf were sl or better from memory.

so far all ive seen is "this brand is better because the packet says its super duper" or "the yanks say this is good so it must be"

would be good to get some facts and figures in here

[telliman]

[barty5]

yea, you're right, im still waiting for a scientific based answer as to why motorcycle oil is "special" when according to the honda manual and the info my semi reliable source has given me- pretty much any engine oil not made in the 1940s is fine - (sg or above), all the oils i could find on the shelf were sl or better from memory.

so far all ive seen is "this brand is better because the packet says its super duper" or "the yanks say this is good so it must be"

would be good to get some facts and figures in here

hopefully this may answer your question cut and pated direct form oils web site.



Can I use car engine oil in my motorcycle ?
No, because motorcycle four-stroke engines do not operate under the same conditions as those of cars (higher engine rpm and temperature). The engine lubricant can also be used to lubricate the gearbox and the clutch, which requires a formula with EXTREME-PRESSURE ADDITIVES. On the other hand, passenger vehicle lubricants contain DETERGENT ADDITIVES with a high ash content. In motorcycle engines, these cause deposits to form on the valve train and the piston crowns, which can result in valve burning or piston perforation.

[barty5]

Why choose a synthetic oil ?
Semi-synthetic and synthetic oils are made from non-conventional bases using sophisticated chemical processes which confer special properties to the finished product. First, the high level of viscosity of the base oils used gives the finished lubricant remarkably stable viscosity whatever the temperature. This property is one of its major advantages over mineral oils, made from conventional bases which require a greater number of additives in order to improve viscosity. The stability of lubrication in all temperatures guarantees optimum efficacy in the cold starting phase which is particularly demanding on the engine ? as well as under conditions of extreme heat. Synthetic-based lubricants show greater resistance to oxidation, which gives them longer effective life thus guaranteeing longer engine life. The use of non-conventional bases, finally, permits the elaboration of more fluid lubricants, without being more volatile; resulting in a reduction of oil consumption.
Therefore, choosing a synthetic based oil is the technologically advance choice, for greater efficacy, longevity and controlled oil consumption.

[Rupe]

Why choose a synthetic oil ?
Semi-synthetic and synthetic oils are made from non-conventional bases using sophisticated chemical processes which confer special properties to the finished product. First, the high level of viscosity of the base oils used gives the finished lubricant remarkably stable viscosity whatever the temperature. This property is one of its major advantages over mineral oils, made from conventional bases which require a greater number of additives in order to improve viscosity. The stability of lubrication in all temperatures guarantees optimum efficacy in the cold starting phase which is particularly demanding on the engine ? as well as under conditions of extreme heat. Synthetic-based lubricants show greater resistance to oxidation, which gives them longer effective life thus guaranteeing longer engine life. The use of non-conventional bases, finally, permits the elaboration of more fluid lubricants, without being more volatile; resulting in a reduction of oil consumption.
Therefore, choosing a synthetic based oil is the technologically advance choice, for greater efficacy, longevity and controlled oil consumption.

ok, think you've cleared all that up. Thank you!

[Robert Taylor]

What is your preference with regards Synthetic vs non-synthetic, the reason I ask is the latest Castrol Power GPS is rated API SJ & JASO MA2, but is semi synth, it's what I've been using ( 5 hour oil / 10 hour oil + filter ).
But I see there is a guy on tardme doing 20 litres of Elf MOTO 4 HP ECO Semi-Synth for $176.50+freight, mind you it's API SH & JASO MA2.

Put it this way I'll go through around 32l in the next 12 months, at $90 a 4l ( fully synth ) that it is $720 vs $320 ( semi synth Elf ), maybe I'm poor, but $400 is a chunk of change if I can save it, assuming I'm not risking my clutch & bike in the process.

P.S. at 1.5 litres of oil a kx250f would be more like 30bhp per litre, they tap out under 40bhp, to be safe say 50bhp per litre, but still that is way short of 150.

Ive always evidenced great engine life with the topline Motul products. Elf is similiar.

[Robert Taylor]

i suspect he ment per litre of capacity say 35hp x4 =140hp

shit its a lot of oil changes glad I've got a 2t

Yes specific horsepower is most usually expressed per litre engine capacity.

[B0000M]

hopefully this may answer your question cut and pated direct form oils web site.



Can I use car engine oil in my motorcycle ?
No, because motorcycle four-stroke engines do not operate under the same conditions as those of cars (higher engine rpm and temperature). The engine lubricant can also be used to lubricate the gearbox and the clutch, which requires a formula with EXTREME-PRESSURE ADDITIVES. On the other hand, passenger vehicle lubricants contain DETERGENT ADDITIVES with a high ash content. In motorcycle engines, these cause deposits to form on the valve train and the piston crowns, which can result in valve burning or piston perforation.

thats some good fact to the debate

thanks for pating that

[camchain]

I've spent a heap of time trying to learn more about oil, it's a huge & interesting subject. But it seemed the deeper I dug (especially into tech articles) the more complex it all looked. Definitive answers are hard get. Even the 'standards' (jaso etc) were a bit of a minefield. Manufacturers appear to wriggle around within them and 'interpret' things differently. eg a big court case not long ago about even what qualifies as a synthetic oil.

It certainly does seem (some) motorcycle labelled oils are significantly different, and this can be measured by bods independantly testing/analysing the oil. But there can be a lot of variation of quantities in additive recipe between comparable product types between the brands - plus some significant quality variations even within some brands. Eg the 'good' quality brand X can test better than the 'good' quality brand Y, but conversely, 'best' quality brand Y can test better than 'best' quality brand X. Overall I reckon there's a lot of marketing hype in this game.

As I understand it, the extreme pressure additives (eg *zinc, phosphorus) are being greatly reduced in car oils as they bugger up modern catalytic converters. These additives come into play where oil film is getting pummelled and you're getting metal to metal contact. These sorts of conditions must occur a lot more frequently than we'd like to think, especially in a stressed out single cylinder dirt bike because these engines do wear out fast.

Apparently it's a common misconception that synthetic oils are somehow more 'slippery' than conventional oil. My current thinking is a good quality dino oil should (theoretically at least) do the job just as well as synthetic if changed regularly and in engine not being too stressed. I'd much rather have clean dinosaur plankton juice than dirty synthetic in an engine. Synthetic seems to be more stable under a wider/harder range of conditions but it's main advantage looks to be is it's ability to retain it's viscosity for a longer time. I'm less inclined to pay top dollar for oil in my (2t oops sorry rupe) gearbox that gets changed very frequently, but on the other hand I wouldn't even consider using non-synthetic for my premix. 2t lube method is just too crude.

Bottom line though, even the most expensive oil is a lot cheaper than parts!

*Edit: Tin was incorrect, it's zinc. Sorry my bad.

[WRFracer]

Bottom line though, even the most expensive oil is a lot cheaper than parts!
posted by camchain.

Thats the answer right there.
Especially with these 4-bangers costing so much to rebuild.
You good oil its not worth the risk, they are high performance engines they need good oil.
Though I would agree with the fact that some oils are overpriced & seem to be playing on there good name.
& people tend to religously swear by this oil when some of the top range cheaper brands are just as good, I'm referring to Motul here.

My opinion is use a good oil but dont be sucked in to using some super duper overpriced stuff.

[charles23]

what do you use Adam? (WRFracer)