Flags, colours, and their use

[FROSTY:Me]

Ill focus on the two flags we are concerned about.
Black with Orange Centre:Road Race Only: Machine to be removed from the circuit immediately. The rider’s number must be shown on a board at the same point as the flag is displayed. Flags must be a minimum size of 24” x 24” (600mm x 600mm).
BLACK-
Individual rider to stop and retire from course. The rider’s number must be shown on a board at the same point as the black flag is displayed.
no mention of --its only to be displayed at head marshalls point.

[ajturbo]

There is of course the MNZ rule that states that if you cannot continue at race pace (which he was not) park the bike.

He broke that rule fair and square.

looks like i will be INCLUDING the 250/4's in my SS riders briefing???

[Skunk]

Sorry not being picky but I thought this was a club rule only that the Vicclub made.

Which in my opinion is an awsome rule I just didnt think it was an Official MNZ rule sorry if it is but I know the rule if you cant run park it.

6-8-1 {EDITED}

Ill focus on the two flags we are concerned about.
Black with Orange Centre:Road Race Only: Machine to be removed from the circuit immediately. The rider’s number must be shown on a board at the same point as the flag is displayed. Flags must be a minimum size of 24” x 24” (600mm x 600mm).
BLACK-
Individual rider to stop and retire from course. The rider’s number must be shown on a board at the same point as the black flag is displayed.
no mention of --its only to be displayed at head marshalls point.

Call me old and blind....................ya couldn't direct me to which chapter thats in?

I'm lookin'...
And I'm not finding it. Spoke to a Steward who said it's there but can't find it either.
OK, take it as I'm wrong. I apologise for putting everyone crook. I'm currently studing the Rule book and I'm sure I saw it - but no - I didn't.

[Burrt Badger]

Try Chapter 6, Section 19, as in 6-19

[Burrt Badger]

Disabled machine rule is 22-1-1

[Tony.OK]

6-8-2


I'm lookin'...
And I'm not finding it. Spoke to a Steward who said it's there but can't find it either.
OK, take it as I'm wrong. I apologise for putting everyone crook. I'm currently studing the Rule book and I'm sure I saw it - but no - I didn't.

Good thread this.................exc way for us all to suss out the rules.

Try Chapter 6, Section 19, as in 6-19

Yeah thats all i could find too.

From a riders perspective I know how easy it is to have tunnel vision, I don't even see people behind the pit wall when at full noise.
And if anything comes from Frosty's offer it will for me be a little more piece of mind knowing that things could be even just a tiny bit safer.

As for the board with riders # on it..................a very cheap answer could be one of those large permanent markers and an A3/A2 tech drawing pad?

[Skunk]

6-8-1 {EDITED}

This is the first mention of a disabled bike (I originally had 6-8-2 which is the wrong one)

Disabled machine rule is 22-1-1

That's the one I was looking for.

[Skunk]

As for the board with riders # on it..................a very cheap answer could be one of those large permanent markers and an A3/A2 tech drawing pad?

I'll add it to my list of things to mention to the club.

[roadracingoldfart]

Good thread this.................exc way for us all to suss out the rules.

Ahhh its like a civilian licence Tony , we all know there is at least 50% unknown to all that hold one

[MSTRS:Me]

Disabled machine rule is 22-1-1

22-1-1 If during practice or racing a competitors machine malfunctions or becomes disabled for
any reason and the competitor is unable to continue racing s/he must hold their line until it
is safe to move as quickly and as safely as possible from the track. The machine must be
parked as far from the track as practical and the rider should move to the safest available
position.

Is this mentioned specifically at Riders Briefing?
I know it's impossible to go through all the rules, but the ones that refer to what happens whilst on the track are pretty damned important.

[scrivy]

I don't know the exact details of the event, but I can't see that the Disabled machine rule is 22-1-1 would have helped in this case? Afterall, the rider was unaware of a disability of his machine, so wouldn't have needed to pull off the track.

In my 22 years of racing, a black flag (with number displayed) or black with an orange dot hasn't helped a hell of a lot. Most racers aren't focused on seeing a black flag, but rather a yellow or red flag.
There is an inherent failure of our licensing system that enables us to race, without passing an exam on the understanding of the rules, or declaring colour blindness or physical or mental abilities. I know of a colour blind competitor, and I also know of competitors that would never be able to see a hand written number on a board 20 metres away. Who are we kidding?? Can you see a hand written number on a board at a marshall point midway down a straight at 200kms? I doubt I could!
Let's stop pissing into the wind. How many clubs have a full complement of coloured flags? How many have enough of all colours for each marshall point?
It doesn't happen!
Why can't the waived yellow be given more importance for what it is - BE PREPARED TO STOP!
Sidecar riders know full well that if you see the waived yellow, you sure as shit have to look behind you to see if you still have your passenger!! Also, to see if you are dragging or leaking anything. Why can't all classes just look around also?? Afterall, when there is a yellow flag on display, you aint allowed to pass, so take your time, have a good look (and a breather if necessary) then proceed. Far better than confusing everyone out there, and no need to have to stop a race. Small clubs simply can't afford all the flags and have sufficient training for all its flaggies.

My .02 cents worth.

[Skunk]

I don't know the exact details of the event, but I can't see that the Disabled machine rule is 22-1-1 would have helped in this case? Afterall, the rider was unaware of a disability of his machine, so wouldn't have needed to pull off the track.

In my 22 years of racing, a black flag (with number displayed) or black with an orange dot hasn't helped a hell of a lot. Most racers aren't focused on seeing a black flag, but rather a yellow or red flag.

In this case the rider did know something was wrong and was not on race pace. Rule 22-1-1 should have kicked in for him.

Agree with all your other comments. We can get the flags but our experience has been as you describe.

[Billy]

looks like i will be INCLUDING the 250/4's in my SS riders briefing???

Good thinking batman!Have you thought about including Clubmans in those extra briefings ?

[quickbuck]

In this case the rider did know something was wrong and was not on race pace. Rule 22-1-1 should have kicked in for him.

Agree with all your other comments. We can get the flags but our experience has been as you describe.

Okay, I'll say it Again.....

He honestly thought it was a loose peg.

You have it, he wasn't going at race pace because flags were coming out all over the place.

No idea that he had dumped oil everywhere.

Now, i haven't had time to diagnose the problem fully, but I do suspect there is a kink in the breather line that is in the catch bottle....

Why do I say that? Well, there isn't normally THAT much pressure up there to blow the gasket out where it did.

I think we will be getting together this weekend and removing an FZR engine and give it a good going over.

[Skunk]

I know it seems I'm haviung a go at him but I'm not. I'm just trying to tell people who weren't there what he did wrong, why the red flags were used and all that shit.
Really, he's been talked to by the Steward so that's the end of the actual problem. Everything else here is just dicussion on how to deal with similar in the future.

Hope you get it sorted and we'll see you at the next round. (Paint some leaky oil marks on the side - that'll wind everyone up! )