Best 2 stroke oil?

[CookMySock]

Very low ratio of oil to fuel is also a gimic, give the engine as much as it can handle and jet accordingly - more oil will displace the quantity of fuel in the overall mix and make it run leaner....

There was an article years ago which tested a bike on the dyno and they got the best power at 14:1 (where most people would run 16-25:1).

It is tempting to draw the conclusion that 14:1 fuel/oil is optimum power, but there are other reasons for that. What they are doing there, is actually fiddling the fuel/air ratio by adjusting the fuel/oil mix, as you observe.

The real reasons for lean fuel/oil mixes, is the engine is less fiddly to start, the rings stay cleaner and less likely to pinch a ring. Dirty rings and skirts can lead to piston seizure on 2T engines that are run full-power for some time, ie microlights, where lean fuel/oil mix is mandatory.

The main problem with lean fuel/oil ratios, are peoples' heads, not lack of lubrication. Everyone seems to respond to 2T "lube" problems with more lube.

I don't recall seeing any 2T engines with stuffed rod or main bearings, but then I haven't seen that many, and I don't pummel them within an inch of their lives.

Steve

[laRIKin]

I have never had a lubrication issue or a failure in any bike that was caused by the oil

I doubt one 2 stroke oil absorbs water more than another, though some oils do react differently with water in terms of slide sticking.

I think if you are getting water into your engine when washing, that is your main problem - seal it better before getting the hose out, not that the oil is sucking it.

Shit you dragged up a 3 year old thread.

Got to love oil threads.

[malcy25]

It is tempting to draw the conclusion that 14:1 fuel/oil is optimum power, but there are other reasons for that. What they are doing there, is actually fiddling the fuel/air ratio by adjusting the fuel/oil mix, as you observe.

The real reasons for lean fuel/oil mixes, is the engine is less fiddly to start, the rings stay cleaner and less likely to pinch a ring. Dirty rings and skirts can lead to piston seizure on 2T engines that are run full-power for some time, ie microlights, where lean fuel/oil mix is mandatory.

The main problem with lean fuel/oil ratios, are peoples' heads, not lack of lubrication. Everyone seems to respond to 2T "lube" problems with more lube.

I don't recall seeing any 2T engines with stuffed rod or main bearings, but then I haven't seen that many, and I don't pummel them within an inch of their lives.

Steve

I think Gordon Jennings knew what he was doing and that was a consideration, given that he was 0ne of the better 2 stroke tuners ever.

He also found less ash deposits which is contrary to what you would expect. In fact, it was found with Castor based oils in higer ratios, ie 50:1 sort of this to deposit MORE....

Larkin, nah, not me, it was there this afternoon!

[mzer]

I doubt one 2 stroke oil absorbs water more than another, though some oils do react differently with water in terms of slide sticking.

Esters are polar molecules and as such tend to be hygroscopic.

When looking at mix ratios it's also important to remember that adding oil to fuel does reduce the fuel's octane.

[McWild]

Me, I use whale oil.

That or TTS, I get confused a lot.

[7mmWSM]

use fully synthetic, i reccomend castrol TTS - at your local supercheapauto 25 bucks a litre - also at cycletreads -
best smell - highest protection at HI rpm

If you have an oil injection system Put a litre in and dont worry about it till a month later when your oil light comes on, when that comes on put another 500ml in and repeat filling it up in 500ml increments a couple of times then just top up every few days in small amounts depending on use
The reason for running the oil out till the light comes on is if there is oil already in the tank, it can react with the new oil and form a gluey like substance.. not what you want to pump into your engine if it makes it that far.

If you want to run on the premix system you want to mix the oil with the fuel at about 40 to 1, thats about 500ml to a tank. mix the fuel and oil in a bucket and stir.


.

You must have a big tank. 40:1 would be 500ml of oil per 20L of fuel.

[Sketchy_Racer]

It is tempting to draw the conclusion that 14:1 fuel/oil is optimum power, but there are other reasons for that. What they are doing there, is actually fiddling the fuel/air ratio by adjusting the fuel/oil mix, as you observe.

The real reasons for lean fuel/oil mixes, is the engine is less fiddly to start, the rings stay cleaner and less likely to pinch a ring. Dirty rings and skirts can lead to piston seizure on 2T engines that are run full-power for some time, ie microlights, where lean fuel/oil mix is mandatory.

The main problem with lean fuel/oil ratios, are peoples' heads, not lack of lubrication. Everyone seems to respond to 2T "lube" problems with more lube.

I don't recall seeing any 2T engines with stuffed rod or main bearings, but then I haven't seen that many, and I don't pummel them within an inch of their lives.

Steve

I think you'll find that the people that did the dyno testing from where that quote about the "14:1 made best power" came from knew that they would need to re-jet each time time they made a change to the oil.

Extra lube especially the 'good' synthetics don't gum up like the old castor based oils did if they were to rich.

I've not had any experience with castor oils, but I fail to see their application in todays modern oil tech.

I've never had any oil related engine issues from synthetics, the only one time I did seize a bike that I was running was when I had a horrendous amount of ignition advance (timing plate slipped) and it detonated itself to death.

I have how ever had a recent play with making a big jump from running 40:1 in my bucket racer (Air cooled Honda H100, making a touch under 20HP) to 25:1. The main thing i noticed was that the extra lube seemed to help keep the engine temp down. One of the biggest issues with air cooled 2 strokes is when they get hot, they lose power. I can't feel any drop off in performance any more, and on top of that, the motor certainly feels much stronger in the low RPM, which I would put down to better sealing if the piston rings thanks to the extra oil.

Next time I have a chance to put the bike on the dyno, I will try the different ratios back to back. It would be interesting to find out.

I would say it is more than reasonable to use any modern good quality synthetic oil, and anything under 40:1 and your safe as houses.

[Robert Taylor]

I think you'll find that the people that did the dyno testing from where that quote about the "14:1 made best power" came from knew that they would need to re-jet each time time they made a change to the oil.

Extra lube especially the 'good' synthetics don't gum up like the old castor based oils did if they were to rich.

I've not had any experience with castor oils, but I fail to see their application in todays modern oil tech.

I've never had any oil related engine issues from synthetics, the only one time I did seize a bike that I was running was when I had a horrendous amount of ignition advance (timing plate slipped) and it detonated itself to death.

I have how ever had a recent play with making a big jump from running 40:1 in my bucket racer (Air cooled Honda H100, making a touch under 20HP) to 25:1. The main thing i noticed was that the extra lube seemed to help keep the engine temp down. One of the biggest issues with air cooled 2 strokes is when they get hot, they lose power. I can't feel any drop off in performance any more, and on top of that, the motor certainly feels much stronger in the low RPM, which I would put down to better sealing if the piston rings thanks to the extra oil.

Next time I have a chance to put the bike on the dyno, I will try the different ratios back to back. It would be interesting to find out.

I would say it is more than reasonable to use any modern good quality synthetic oil, and anything under 40:1 and your safe as houses.

My experience Glen is that there are a couple of high profile synthetic 2 stroke oils on the market that result in big end bearing cage skid at elevated rpm, so care still has to be taken with selection. Although its a bit of a broad statement I would have to say that the French companies produce the best 2 stroke oil i.e Motul, Elf.
There is still a lot of marketing hype out there and there always will be. As a 2 stroke tuner for many years ( mx, road race and karts ) we didnt always run the same oil as the sponsors stickers, because we didnt want premature wear / lubrication related failures and we always ran on the ragged edge.

[Robert Taylor]

Castrol MSSR, hard to find but good stuff

Thoroughly disagree, rapid wear.

[CookMySock]

My experience Glen is that there are a couple of high profile synthetic 2 stroke oils on the market that result in big end bearing cage skid at elevated rpm, so care still has to be taken with selection.

Which ones? How elevated? If they were mixed at higher than the recommended concentration they might do that too.

Steve

[Robert Taylor]

Which ones? How elevated? If they were mixed at higher than the recommended concentration they might do that too.

Steve

Im not entering into libel / ''name and shame'' but suffice to say at recommended ratios and sustained use at high rpm. We built a LOT of NZ championship winning MX, road race and gearbox kart engines through the late 80s and to 2000 and had a lot of experience with oils.

[ready4whatever]

bp brand .

[Ooky]

motul 710

[Madmax]

Thoroughly disagree, rapid wear.

methanol/nitro mix used for drag racing never had any problems
also used it in a road race bike same (methanol only)
I think it was made for model engines/snow bugs
the mix was the trick

[Madmax]

Im not entering into libel / ''name and shame'' but suffice to say at recommended ratios and sustained use at high rpm. We built a LOT of NZ championship winning MX, road race and gearbox kart engines through the late 80s and to 2000 and had a lot of experience with oils.

own up then if this is so good
Belray Mabey !!!!