No, after you.

[MSTRS:Me]

Be interesting if we were able to give it a go and conduct some huge sort of social experiment. I'm for it, anyway.

What? You'd interrupt the one we have now? Reactionary! Shame on you. Uncle Helen is disappointed....

[vifferman]

Or because we (were) a nation of DIYers, we are increasingly frustrated by the plethora of laws that say we can't now?

Yeah, I was going to say that too, so I suspect you're right (I mean, if you and I think that, then it must be true, yes?) On the same note, I think that restrictive laws/circumstances, and too much safety are partially responsible for the rise in adventure sports, and - for those who don't want to shell out big coin for that - reckless behaviour. Speeding, breaking road laws, stunting, etc.

Roadrage is the same as giving hell to some officious little prat with a clipboard (perhaps the one saying that you can't remove that tree on YOUR land that is dropping crap in YOUR guttering cos the RMA "says you can't"?)

Yeah, WTF is up with that?!!
You can buy a tree, plant it on your property, and then if you need to subsequently remove it for some valid reason (like its roots are breaking your wall or path), you're not allowed to. Who the hell owns it? What business is it of anyone else?

[Babelfish]

Hi, you've reached the automated post of Automaton TempBJ. He'd like to answer your thread, but is unsure what ruling exists toward making either a wity or contructive comment within this context. He'd just like to point out that he agrees with pretty much anything said here, within the guidlines of of the law of both this forum and the greater community. He'd also like to comment on the proactive work towards a brighter relationship with our American friends, in line with this nations policy of being everyones mate (aside from the whole "racist bastard" policy we have).

Please let me know if I am supposed to say something else.

Your automated friend, Automaton TempBJ

[MSTRS:Me]

Hi, you've reached the automated post of Automaton TempBJ. He'd like to answer your thread, but is unsure what ruling exists toward making either a wity or contructive comment within this context. He'd just like to point out that he agrees with pretty much anything said here, within the guidlines of of the law of both this forum and the greater community. He'd also like to comment on the proactive work towards a brighter relationship with our American friends, in line with this nations policy of being everyones mate (aside from the whole "racist bastard" policy we have).

Please let me know if I am supposed to say something else.

Your automated friend, Automaton TempBJ

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own

[Crisis management]

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own

No no no no.....we've heard his own ideas before.

My experience in the states echoes vfr's, polite and calm driving everywhere (except the south where there are some true nutters). Lose a few laws and I'm sure we are all capable of making our own decisions.

Pet hate: those bloody red arrows for right hand turns

[vifferman]

Pet hate: those bloody red arrows for right hand turns

While I don't hate them, I do on occasion ignore them if there's nothing coming.
I liked that in Mrka there were far, far fewer traffic lights than here, and no roundabouts. Intersections were mainly either uncontrolled or had stop signs on ALL roads (apart from intersections on major highways).
It seemed to work very, very well.

If "they" are going to put traffic lights everywhere (including another new one on Mokoia Road, for some unfathomable reason), at least make them sensible ones, that react to traffic volumes. It's just a tad frustrating sitting at a red light when there's nothing coming the other way.
At the lightse at the end of our street, it's quicker in off-peak times to leap out of the car (or off the bike) and push the pedestrian button than wait for the timed response. And if you're waiting to turn right into the street, it's quicker to go around the block. Now that's just pharkt.

[car]

Better yet, courtesy - like king of the road aggression - is infectious and prevails in every situation drivers encounter.

A long time ago, on a Harley ride around Arizona, I pulled out of a gas station and nearly got taken out by some dithering old fogey and his wife in their sub-compact. I shook my head at them, but we'd avoided any collision, so went on our ways.

We were heading the same way though and, sure enough, the red lights came up and we pulled alongside each other. At which point, he starts to get out of his car. I cut the engine and, to my surprise, he began to apologise profusely. I was dumbfounded, and told him not to worry about it.

I related this to some local friends later, who explained that this was probably because he was worried I might be carrying a gun. A lot of people carry guns in AZ, I was told, and it pays to say sorry. The same reason, I'd figured last time I was in the US, that no-one had so much as beeped a horn at the crazy guy wandering all over the road on Sunset Blvd.

I've been to the states a few times since, and always found the drivers courteous, and the driving easy, even in LA. Any overt expression of agression, even decisiveness, seems to go a long way on the road. People move. I've never worked out whether they were just acquiescent by nature, or whether they were worried that I might start taking pot-shots at the next intersection. The seedier the neighbourhood, the less this seems to work.

I must admit, though, that coming here straight after the US, I was dismayed by the lack of courtesy and road-skills that a lot of drivers showed. It was nice to be back on the right side of the road again, but not so nice getting carved up by morons who don't know how their own right of way rules work.

Of course, this may just have been because I was in Auckland.

He finished by asking if she'd like some maps of the area! Does this seem a long way from cop behaviour in New Zealand?

Not a long way, no.

I've been pulled twice since I got here, both times in excess of 130kph, and both times I've been given a warning. The first time, it was 3am, and the guy gave me directions to the nearest safe spot to pull over and take a kip. That seemed like reasonable behaviour to me.

The second time, I'd probably have got a ticket if it weren't for the spectacular idiocy of a certain camper driver, but the cop did at least show some initiative by letting me off the hook so that he could deal with the more pressing matter.

But then, I've found the same in the UK, too.

I tend not to speed when the conditions aren't favourable, and so whenever I've been pulled the roads have been relatively clear and traffic light. With only one exception, I've been let off or had my offence downgraded every time.

That exception, the cop apologised to me, because by the time he'd caught me up the traffic had got heavy and I'd decided that I wasn't going to play silly buggers on a full motorway. My average speed had dropped to an almost not-worth-booking 92mph.

He apologised three times for pulling me over, but once the Vascar had started logging, he had to have a collar at the end of the shift, or so he claimed.

Who knows, he may have been lying, but that he didn't screw me for not having an MoT, nor for the entirely illegal exhaust system I was sporting, suggests that he wasn't in the mood for making trouble.

Motorcyclists in many states of America are free to choose whether or not to wear helmets. We wore ours most of the time but it was great having the right to shed them every now and then at our discretion and feel the wind in our hair.

This I agree with wholeheartedly. If nothing else, it makes the bike a hell of a lot more useful in town, where I can give a helmetless mate a lift three miles down the road, at little more than pushbike pace, without breaking the law.

Of course, over here, where I'd get busted for riding just a pushbike with no lid on, the law doesn't seem quite so much like an ass.

I'm not sure if the cops here are that much worse than they are anywhere else. When you or I get pulled overseas, we're visitors. Police are much more likely to let us off, to give us directions, to try to give us a good impression of their country.

Even if they don't want to cut the tourist some slack, they most probably want to cut themselves some slack from trying to process a speeding fine through foreign lands. I almost didn't want to get an NZ license for that very reason, but of course now that I have one, I'm in the Master Computer.

[86GSXR]

All good comments folks and I must say that I'm really enjoying the book. This was only one small excerpt from an altogether very well written piece.

I posted this as it really struck a chord as to how much NZ society has changed in the last 20 or so years and how molliecoddled we have become. I know there will be folks older than myself who'd say that this is nothing compared to how it really used to be, and I know that the younger generation won't really be able to meaningfully compare life today with how it was then.

Whatever the viewpoints and the reasons, NZ is still a great place to be and that the over-regulation is unfortunately with us for a while yet it seems. The only way to avoid it is to do your own thing anyway and try not to get caught. The key is to be safe and responsible in the process it seems to me.

Yeah, go ahead and cut down that dangerous tree, do 110 if there's nothing coming and the road is straight and dry, or whatever it may be that doesn't make sense.

Personally I would wear a helmet 99% of the time, I never speed where it's not safe, and I have little tolerance for those who endanger others.

I don't blame the police for enforcing the rules, I know they only do it because they're held accountable by a higher rule to do so and it's great when they use their common sense as they often do.

I realise that this country needs the income from taxes and fines, as we will be facing a rapidly aging population very soon and we need to invest in income generating investments for future retirement schemes.

I just wish the government would be honest about this and not try and bullshit us about how unsafe we all are and therefore need to be taxed, wrist slapped and fined at every opportunity.

Anyway, before I get all I really loved driving around America and fully intend to do it again sometime by bike.

The first time was by car www.autodriveaway.com which was great except that there wasn't too much opportunity to get off the interstates.

I was living in Atlanta, Georgia and vividly remember my very first driving experience on US soil.

I'd hired a car from the airport in Atlanta (pop 4.5 million and the 8th most congested US city) and pulled out of the single lane access road onto an 8 lane freeway. Christ what a shock! I just glued myself to the guy in front and stayed with him for the next 20 miles, until I got used to being on the right and the flow of the roads. After a day or two though it became very natural.

A couple of times I reverted back to left hand instincts, but only briefly. In fact, after returning to NZ, it seemed weird not being on the right.

I loved the first come first served intersection rule, and the 'right on red' rule is fantastic!!! If only we'd adopt it here, we could save SO much time at lights. It would have to be left at red though naturally.

And as for the highway patrol. Well, my experience was just great. I was driving through the western Texas desert about 100 miles east of El Paso, single lane interstate, and decided to stop at an isolated gas station for coffee.

As I pulled onto the off ramp the sun was in my face and I didn't see this bloody great big steel reinforcing rod that had only just fallen off a roading truck ahead of me. I spotted it just in time to swerve around it, but I unfortunatly clipped it and scraped the front guard and took a chunk of rubber out of the right front tyre.

I had to get a police report, and as this place was 60 miles from the nearest police base and it took 4 hours for the officer to arrive I passed the time by yakking to the local sherriff (blue jeans, gun holstered Mexican guy) until the 'proper' police officer got there.

I also changed the tire while I waited, and when the highway patrolman arrived he was absolutely astounded and genuinely hurt by the fact that I'd changed my own tyre.

Oh Sir, sir, he stated, you should not have had to do that, that's what we're here for.

Now that's service in my opinion

And yes, I had some pretty freaky experiences on the road in Chicago and LA. Whew, was I glad to get away from some pretty scarey dudes.

[chanceyy]

I was living in Atlanta, Georgia and vividly remember my very first driving experience on US soil.

I'd hired a car from the airport in Atlanta (pop 4.5 million and the 8th most congested US city) and pulled out of the single lane access road onto an 8 lane freeway. Christ what a shock! I just glued myself to the guy in front and stayed with him for the next 20 miles, until I got used to being on the right and the flow of the roads. After a day or two though it became very natural.

gawd that brings back memories .. my first driving experience in the states .. pulled out of a park & started driving on the wrong side of the road .. just about freaked out my passenger :
occassionally had to stop & think about what side of the road i was pulling out on .. but yeah it does not take long to get used to it

The freeways flow really well & we certainly do not have roads like that here .. mind you I still prefer the roads we have here at least most are not boring .. with exceptions of course ..

never was pulled over by cops but dealt with quite a few where I was working .. damn freaky to see them all armed up to the hilt, liked it much better when they were in mufti LOL

sounds like a good read there Al

[Babelfish]

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own

[86GSXR]

Just what we need...another Yesman. Go on, dare you to have ideas of your own

Oh god

[Sanx]

The thing that really pisses me off with driving / riding in this country is the length of time people take to move after a light goes green. Green means 'go'. Green does not mean put down your cellphone, put your car in Drive, and release handbrake. It means go. As in move. Now. It's usually the same people who then accelerate so damn slowly, it takes until the next bloody traffic light (in Auckland, about 4.5 metres away) to hit 50km/h.

Does this matter? Well, yes. Why do you think so many people run red lights? Lights have timed cycles. During the time the braindead amoeba at the front takes to move away, four or five alert drivers could have got through the same junction. Is it any wonder people run red lights at the end of the queue then? Considering light cycles are often too short, having only two cars go through when six could have managed it is exactly the sort of scenario that frustrates people enough to just 'nip' through the gap at the end.

And that's when bikers get taken out.

[sarahtvet]

Nice post 86.
Possibly the link to considerate driving can be linked to a nations approach in handling its citizens. Example:
Travelling/riding in places like India, Turkey, etc may seem like a suicidal dance of machinery and humans...until you join the throng. Beeps on horns, and arms waving you onward are the norm, and extremely efficient. The drivers want to get to there destinations quickly and safely, so assist each other with merging, passing etc.
However if you rise above your position in the traffic food chain, chances are you will get wasted.
And this is where there society beliefs step in. Basically, they don't give a stuff. You made the call to be a fuckwit, so justice is serviced. They will push you to one side and go about their business. Not all life is cheap, just lives of the traveling morons.
I kinda like their approach.
I hav'nt travelled in the USA, so wouldn't compare my experience in Asia with that of American rules. Possibly there is a population link though.
Maybe NZ is like some short people, always trying to get noticed, and our driving reflects this. Larger nations are like Joe average. Just getting on with getting on.

Brave man if you have driven lots in india, I totally agree that everybody looks out for each other and engages in a well orchestrated dance but it would take some special riding to get into that dance

I am considering enduro india so will be looking for some tips

I notice that in London we all let people out, if you don't they come anyway!!! It is easier and smoother if we all gently feed in together. Here people rarely let drivers out which I found really strange. But we do gets loads pull over to let us past on the bikes though so not all have lost the fun in life!!!

[Swoop]

...the length of time people take to move after a light goes green. Green means 'go'. Green does not mean put down your cellphone, put your car in Drive, and release handbrake. It means go. As in move. Now.
Does this matter? Well, yes. Why do you think so many people run red lights? Lights have timed cycles. During the time the braindead amoeba at the front takes to move away, four or five alert drivers could have got through the same junction. Is it any wonder people run red lights at the end of the queue then?

We also have that amber light in the centre of the traffic lights. Completely wasted on NZ drivers.
Other countries have this amber light "illuminated" for several seconds, to warn you that the light is either going to change from green to red - OR vice versa. In NZ it flashes for a nanosecond. Might as well do away with it and just have the red and green!

[MSTRS:Me]

... that amber light in the centre of the traffic lights. ... In NZ it flashes for a nanosecond....

Rounds these parts it exceeds the time the green is on....