Key makes "peace" with actress

[Hitcher]

Wrong. It's a Non-government Organisation (NGO)

Somebody warned me about arguing with dwarves on Sundays.

[Street Gerbil]

She should stick to making babies and riding whales.

I'd rather she stick to riding whales. Her daughter is a menace to society (biter). Another one like that would qualify as cruel and unusual collective punishment.

[James Deuce]

Speak for yerself, James. I am pretty sure I'm not thinking what you're thinking.

Besides Key was being an obnoxious and offensive arse, just trying to get a cheap laugh out of a business crowd, and he needed to apologise for that. And he has as much intellectual cred on the issue as Keisha has, or indeed Rodney Hide has.



Wonder why?



Some of us have a moral compass. The evidence of the deleterious effects of our petroleum-based industrial lifestyle are plain to see for all but the most blinkered libertarian "rugged individualists" - whose brains would explode, I think, if they permitted themselves to understand the doctrine of property rights in a more reality-based sense.

Somebody does indeed need to think of the children, and the mess we are leaving them in our relentless quest for flat-screen tellys and other shiny crap toys, and I applaud Keisha and Robyn and Rhys and the others, "slappers" and non-"slappers" alike, that have the guts to do so.

Yes, superstition is definitely an approach that has gained credibility in the face of a culture of excess consumption.

[James Deuce]

Do you really *not* think this is the case?

You're not going to drown in your filth. Your children won't drown in their filth either but your grandchildren are going to have to either live with or clear up whatever shit we leave behind. The Oceans may be entirely lifeless. Whole countries way well be abandoned. Wars may be fought over fertile soil instead of petrochemicals, power or money. The patent on the few plants than *can* grow on the crap left behind may be owned by a few unthinkably powerful organisations. The cost of food for a family would exceed all other household costs by a factor of two.

We are well on the way to *all* of these actually happening and if it does it will be directly the fault of two groups of people: Those who thought is was a lefty pinko plot to take away our god given right to drive fast and kill towelheads; and those who believed it but did nothing.

So, up to you man - do you want future generations to regard us as the people who shat all over the planet while preoccupied with brangelina's latest antics, or as the generation who realised what shallow self-obsessed fucktards the boomers have been and starting putting things right.

Dave

I'm surprised and mildly disappointed that you haven't taken to heart other things I've repeatedly said about this issue, and that you've chosen to miseread and misrepresent what I wrote.

You can buy me lunch and we'll have a chat.

I have said, over and over, that the three things EVERY person in EVERY western nation can do to fix the culture of excess consumption are:

1. Travel only on foot.
2. Wear no synthetic clothing.
3. Eat no pre-packaged food.

But this is a motorcycle forum, so I KNOW none of us are prepared to do these things.

Anyone who supports Climate Change Superstition over a reasoned examination of current factual evidence based in Science and the desire to learn more, and who rides a motorcycle, REALLY needs to look at themselves and ask if motorcycles suit their "moral compass". You are kidding yourself if you think that a motorcycle is in an yway economical to produce and own. Just because it uses less resources to build than a car doesn't mean you are reducing the impact of consumer society on the "World" as a whole.

In terms of changing habits, I've stopped commuting by motorcycle and have started using public transport, despite trains in NZ creating more CO2 emissions per kilometer travelled than a motorcycle. I've done it because we'll soon have more efficient trains in Wellington. I'll use the bike when I need to. Need. Or for R&R.

I also eat more fruit, and try to buy food that has been prepared on the premises of wherever I buy it. Little tiny baby steps, but I'm not prepared to put Jim's Dictum of Climate Change into effect because I simply couldn't maintain my current responsibilities. The society I live in isn't geared to supporting partially self-sustaining village communities populated by telecommuters and super-fit athletes.

You guys doing anything different except spouting principle in a motorcycle forum? No?

[Pedrostt500]

The inconveniant truth is man made climate change can't be proved.

Just because you got knocked up at sixteen does not mean you're informed.

Wow I thought 16yr olds knew it all, and I had just forgotten most things in the last 28 years.

[Winston001]

Hey, don't get me wrong I'm sold on the need to clean up our act and live more sustainably. It's the alarmist, bull shit stories about armagedon just around the corner that piss me off. The science is not settled, nor can it ever be.

So if there is any chance of persuading people that we need to stop polluting, then you and I need to say so. The climate change issue is fundamentally about pollution.

However every time any of us get distracted by minor issues like Keisha, the whole message gets lost in the static.

Heck I've argued (as unemotionally as possible) climate change here for three years and yet the same old shibboleths keep coming back. Conspiracy theories about secret money grabs, Al Gore is a dupe, climate change is natural and inevitable etc. So we needn't stop polluting. Bollocks.

[James Deuce]

Heck I've argued (as unemotionally as possible) climate change here for three years and yet the same old shibboleths keep coming back. Conspiracy theories about secret money grabs, Al Gore is a dupe, climate change is natural and inevitable = lifestyle change is totally unnecessary. Bollocks.

I'd just like to point out that I've never said that, and that while Al Gore IS a dupe, how does sending money overseas help change the climate?

Empirically, climate change is inevitable. How you adapt to it is the key, not how you try to prevent it. Canutism has no place in a rational world.

[Clivoris]

But this is a motorcycle forum, so I KNOW none of us are prepared to do these things.

You guys doing anything different except spouting principle in a motorcycle forum? No?

Ouch. I will have you know that I buy all my hookers and drugs from certified sustainable low carbon footprint sources. Some sacrifices are worth making for my children.

[James Deuce]

Oooo, another point too. We've gone to a fortnightly rubbish pickup, and our wheelie bin is generally only half full, simply by changing our purchasing habits.

I'm trying to do my bit, but I will NOT tolerate fear and superstition spouted by the uninformed on the behalf of an organisation that will fake photographs and videos to establish a position of moral superiority over a Government or Corporate entity.

[rainman]

This website offers objective opinions on climate change. I've seen a few and read around but this one is the most balanced in my view. It's the one I've bookmarked and refer others to. http://www.climatechangefacts.info/

Odd site. I will look at it in more depth but it seems at first blush a curious mix between science and spin. I could find several things on pages I browsed that are pretty close to clear bullshit, but the guy has decent scientific credentials, unlike many poster boys of the denier camp. I'll reserve judgement at the moment.

Didn't see him talking NWO, though. You may wish to check your tinfoil hat.

It's all in the way the message is being delivered.

Consider being pulled over by a cop and finding your WOF has expired by a few weeks. Now consider two responses.

[INDENT]Cop 1 reminds you that the WOF is an important check for yours and others' safety and suggests you call into VTNZ on the way home. You agree and dutifully do as suggested.

Try Transition Towns, then - their point is not about any of this being your fault and you being a bad person, but that change is inevitable, and we can use our collective genius to build a genuinely better world - if we try. Works for you?

For Greenpeace in New Zealand? All you have done is reinforce my proposition that Greenpeace is a multinational conglomerate.

Ok, let's give you NZ then:

Greenpeace New Zealand

The governance of Greenpeace NZ has a circular accountability mechanism and a procedure for bringing new people in to the voting system.

The Greenpeace New Zealand Board is elected at an Annual General Meeting. There are 7 members on the Board, which meets four times a year.

The Board ensures that Greenpeace New Zealand’s name and finances are used for what they are intended. They agree on the overall strategic direction and development of the National Office, approve the annual budget and hire the Executive Director.

The Board is voted in by the Voting Assembly, which is a group of up to 45 Greenpeace supporters. The Voting Assembly members are nominated by a Membership Committee and agreed upon at the AGM.

Each year a Membership Committee is established at the AGM, consisting of three Voting Assembly members, one Board member and the NZ Executive Director. The Membership Committee encourages and invites interested Greenpeace supporters to participate in the Voting Assembly.

The Executive Director of Greenpeace New Zealand is employed by the Board. The Executive Director is responsible to the Board for the management of staff, budgets and campaign activities.

Seems they have AGM's too, and a reasonable governance structure for an NGO. But yes, they're an international organisation. Bugger, seems you were wrong. Feel free to admit to letting your anti-green bias get in the way of telling the truth, we're all friends here.

Yes, superstition is definitely an approach that has gained credibility in the face of a culture of excess consumption.

That a rebuttal? Or merely a claim that your anti-AGW position is in some way rational?

[James Deuce]

That a rebuttal? Or merely a claim that your anti-AGW position is in some way rational?

Is that a rebuttal or the old tactic of accusing your opponent in a way that you can't respond without looking like a politician, I mean, tosser?

[Hitcher]

Seems they have AGM's too, and a reasonable governance structure for an NGO. But yes, they're an international organisation. Bugger, seems you were wrong. Feel free to admit to letting your anti-green bias get in the way of telling the truth, we're all friends here.

Thank you for that. I shall turn up with my three busloads of likeminded people (all of whom shall be paid up Greenpeace members) and wind the New Zealand organisation up at its next "AGM" then.

I love the smell of democracy in the morning!

[Mom]

Bring back free shopping bags.

Funny story about shopping bags...

Went down the road to pick up a few things and left my trusty bag at home. Go to checkout and am asked if I want a bag/we charge now you know? Yepper I know, I will have a bag thanks. Bits and pieces duely placed in my bag, then comes my wine. She selects a green bag for it, I am quick to say, no its alright put it in the other bag, when she reassures me the green bags are free! Cool, put the whole lot in the green bag please.

The supermarket bag thing is a total crock! I have no idea why we got them in the first place, always used to be brown paper bags, or your own. They introduced them, we got used to them, now we have to go back again.

[Street Gerbil]

This Al Gore dude must be a really clever fella. I mean he invented intrawebs, they even coined a term "Algorithm" after him. If he says the sky is falling, we'd better wear hard hats.
But what pisses me off is the hypocrisy. Everybody is suddenly obsessed with CO2 and "carbon footprints". That may be right to some extent, given that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and all (and also allows us nice and comfy +20'C at ground level when we have +20'K two hundred miles from the ground), but lo and behold, CO2 is by far not the most significant greenhouse agent. The significant ones are (1) water vapor and (2) methane. Ok, we cannot cover Hauraki Gulf with cellophane without rightfully being branded morons, and proposal to reduce methane emission would be political suicide (will require dismantling NZ dairy/meat industries). So let's search for the key near the streetlight rather than where we've lost it. Let's go after fukken Carbon Dioxide!!! Never mind plants will eat as much as nature (humankind included) can possibly throw at them. Let's make something that WILL MAKE US FEEL GOOD! I wonder when the global warming will be over, what will be the next scare. New Ice Age? Genetically engineered medicines? Green scaly men?
P.S. It is also interesting to note that humankind is responsible for fractions of one per cent of methane emissions. The biggest source of methane on earth are termites. Oooops.

[rainman]

So if there is any chance of persuading people that we need to stop polluting, then you and I need to say so.

Yup. Let's stop nitpicking and get on with finding solutions.

Thank you for that. I shall turn up with my three busloads of likeminded people (all of whom shall be paid up Greenpeace members) and wind the New Zealand organisation up at its next "AGM" then!

If you can find three busloads of members that will vote for that, fill yer boots. Just don't conscript me, I'm no longer a member.

Is that a rebuttal or the old tactic of accusing your opponent in a way that you can't respond without looking like a politician, I mean, tosser?

James, you're an engima. Reading some of your posts since my last comment, you seem to be somewhat inconsistent. If climate change is inevitable, why would we not spend effort trying both to adapt to it and to change our actions today to avoid it getting worse? Why avoid logically debating the reasons for holding whatever views you do hold, but rather resort to dismissing your adversaries as superstitious? Why would you be so vehemently anti so many well-meaning (but admittedly not optimal) people who are trying what they know to make the world a better place?

You've got NZ perfectionism disease, I think. But I'm not sure. If you weren't on the other end of the country I'd buy you a beer and try to figure out what exactly it is you stand for.

Because it sure as hell ain't obvious from what you've said here.