Hide accused of playing race card

[Benk]

Surely they get that in Jail after killing their kids?

No?

oh well, too bad.

Hahahah

[short-circuit]

Is this just another way of dividing Maori and non maori, and do those proposing this really want apartheid?

Affirmative action is an attempt to undo apartheid (they are at opposite ends of a continuum):


Apartheid policies were aimed at advancing the lives of white Afrikaners in South Africa. There was job reservation policy aimed at improving the lives of white Afrikaners. Apartheid government favoured white-owned companies and created statutory companies for white Afrikaners. As a result, majority of companies in South Africa are owned by white people. The aforementioned policies achieved the desired results, but in the process they marginalised and excluded black people. Black people were forcefully removed from their previous property, without compensation, and said property was given to the white minority.

When the new majority government came to power, they decided to implement an affimative action campaign to correct previous imbalances. As such, the previously disenfranchised majority and minority groups are being supported by forcing the formerly privileged white minority group to implement certain policies. These policies include quotas regarding how much of the procurement is bought from non-white companies, how much of the equity is owned by non-whites, how many employees are non-white, and what position the non-whites have.

taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

[Headbanger]

In all seriousness Benk, I completely and utterly disagree with you, Maori do not need more assistance, They need to stop blaming their social breakdown on others, Its a massive concrete anchor dragging on the entire NZ population.

If someone is dieing from diabetes, its because they eat shit food, not because their skin is a darker shade. Squandering more and more money down a bottomless hole isn't the answer to anything, Like all things it will require a culture shift to sort out the issues, and that has to happen within Maori not within the rest of society.We have done our bit,over and above a reasonable amount.

Until they stand up and be counted on their merits rather then their failures then the condition will never be cured.

Are Maori held back by the system?, Hell no the system is built from the bottom up to assist them, Its their parents,peers and communities that hold them back.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Affirmative action is an attempt to undo apartheid (they are at opposite ends of a continuum:


Apartheid policies were aimed at advancing the lives of white Afrikaners in South Africa. There was job reservation policy aimed at improving the lives of white Afrikaners. Apartheid government favoured white-owned companies and created statutory companies for white Afrikaners. As a result, majority of companies in South Africa are owned by white people. The aforementioned policies achieved the desired results, but in the process they marginalised and excluded black people. Black people were forcefully removed from their previous property, without compensation, and said property was given to the white minority.

When the new majority government came to power, they decided to implement an affimative action campaign to correct previous imbalances. As such, the previously disenfranchised majority and minority groups are being supported by forcing the formerly privileged white minority group to implement certain policies. These policies include quotas regarding how much of the procurement is bought from non-white companies, how much of the equity is owned by non-whites, how many employees are non-white, and what position the non-whites have.

taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

dont believe everything you read on wikepedia, son.

maaaaaaari seats in local gubberment is a stupd idea. Almost as stupid as the idea of local gummerment itself.

and having race-based anything is apartheidt by whatever name its called, and it is still racism. Dont give me that bullshit about 150 years of colonialism and oppression either, I dont buy it. The only thing that local gubberment is FOR* in my view is to keep the toilets flushing, the rubbish collected and street lamps on, and to look after parks and other public good type things in the local area. If maaaaaaari owned a bit of land then away they go, they can have a representative voice but one based purely on the nebulous argument about "race" "tribe" or "ethnicity". That is plain WRONG in my view.


*assuming you buy the argument that "local" gubbermint is necessary at all, which I for one, do not.

[Jantar]

Affirmative action is an attempt to undo apartheid (they are at opposite ends of a continuum:


Auckland's Apartheid policies are aimed at advancing the lives of Maori in Auckland. There will be job reservation policy on the Auckland Super City Council aimed at improving the lives of Maori. Apartheid government favoured Maori-owned companies and created statutory companies for Maori. As a result, majority of corporations in Auckland will be owned by Maori. The aforementioned policies achieve the desired results, but in the process they marginalise and exclude white people. White people were forcefully removed from their previous property, without compensation, and said property was given to the Maori minority.

etc etc

Yep. Sounds racist to me.

[idb]

An appropriate perspective; before discussing the points you raised much further the much needed concept of 'defining a Maori' need to be tackled?

I would argue that many folk claiming to be Maori have the most tenuous link to Maori ancestry and are in fact 'crackers' with the slightest hint of Maori blood.

How do we define who is a Maori?

I believe it's essentially a self-assessment...an honesty system if you like.

[Benk]

If someone is dieing from diabetes, its because they eat shit food, not because their skin is a darker shade.

Obviously. But how do they know to eat better food? Personally, I learnt how to eat well by being educated by my parents. EDUCATED. Without education, the cycle continues, and nothing changes. This is what I mean, to think that we are all equally smart, equally fit, equally healthy, equally educated, is foolish. Some people need more help than others.

Until they stand up and be counted on their merits rather then their failures

I dont understand this?

[short-circuit]

Yep. Sounds racist to me.

I quite agree.

What about paragraph two?

[Benk]

Yep. Sounds racist to me.

Fuck, talk about a misquote. Thats such a load of bullshit, and I hope nobody (else) who reads it is dumb enough to believe it. Half of what you have manipulated into that quote doesnt apply AT ALL. I cant be fucked breaking it down, but for god sake man, do some reading eh.

[short-circuit]

and having race-based anything is apartheidt by whatever name its called, and it is still racism.

Go and look up the term apartheid - the definition differs wildly from your interpretation of it.

Dont give me that bullshit about 150 years of colonialism and oppression either, I dont buy it.

You can live in a bubble if you like - there is an extensive documented history

The only thing that local gubberment is FOR* in my view is to keep the toilets flushing, the rubbish collected and street lamps on, and to look after parks and other public good type things in the local area.

If this were true then I'm sure you wouldn't object to Maori representation

If maaaaaaari owned a bit of land then away they go, they can have a representative voice

They once "owned" the lot but their sense of ownership differs from a European understanding

but one based purely on the nebulous argument about "race" "tribe" or "ethnicity". That is plain WRONG in my view.

See earlier definition on Affirmative Action

*assuming you buy the argument that "local" gubbermint is necessary at all, which I for one, do not.

Give us one example of a first world city any where without a local government or regulatory body

[MSTRS:Me]

I believe it's essentially a self-assessment...an honesty system if you like.

Honesty system? You are kidding. Aren't you?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Go and look up the term apartheid - the definition differs wildly from your interpretation of it.




You can live in a bubble if you like - there is an extensive documented history




If this were true then I'm sure you wouldn't object to Maori representation




They once "owned" the lot but their sense of ownership differs from a European understanding




See earlier definition on Affirmative Action




Give us one example of a first world city any where without a local government or regulatory body

We have different views. I respect that. i consider your opinion to be misguided however. I dont really have time to argue at present but I will say because my earlier rant was a somewhat unclear expression of my opinion.

If we have local gubberment at all, then it should be FOR defined purposes, and paid for BY the landowners in the area. Unless of course you support someithing like Thatcher's poll tax which was an alternate funding model that was so very sucessful in Britain in the late '80's. If you accept that hypothesis (do you? if not why not?) then what matters is not the self selected wildly variable colour of the skin of the person flushing the toilet, or putting the rubbish out, it is the fact that the tolet flushes or the rubbish is collected that is important.

One person, one vote, make the trains run on time, the dunnies flush, dont give in to pressure groups:job done.

[Hitcher]

Good on him! Having seats for any organisation based on race is, frankly, rascist.

Even a Minister of Maori Affairs is rascist. Candidates for seats should rise or fall on their own merits and if you read the Treaty of Waitangi (Hobson's correct version, not the sterilized, twisted version we currently have jammed down our throats) it states that "We are now one people".

If that's the case, and it should be, then it's one rule for all; regardless of race, colour or creed.

I draw your attention to Exhibit A: The Treaty of Waitangi. This envisaged a partnership between the Crown and the indigenous people of New Zealand.

The Local Government Act 2002 is probably worth a read too, while you're at it.

If you want to discard this agreement and lumber the taxpayers of New Zealand with the consequences of that, feel free to start a political party and see how many votes you get.

[Jantar]

Fuck, talk about a misquote. Thats such a load of bullshit, and I hope nobody (else) who reads it is dumb enough to believe it. Half of what you have manipulated into that quote doesnt apply AT ALL. I cant be fucked breaking it down, but for god sake man, do some reading eh.

I believe I made it clear that is was a misquote by highlighting the changed words in red. I didn't say it DID apply, just making the point that it is a racist situation to apply any form of government, national or local, on race.

[Benk]

I believe I made it clear that is was a misquote by highlighting the changed words in red. I didn't say it DID apply, just making the point that it is a racist situation to apply any form of government, national or local, on race.

Uggghhh. I comprehend what you were trying to achieve with the post, but its still a pointless, dangerous, load of shit.