Hide accused of playing race card

[Hitcher]

Almost as stupid as the idea of local gummerment itself

So you don't believe in local democracy then? I am curious as to why you think that this is stupid/redundant.

[short-circuit]

We have different views. I respect that. i consider your opinion to be misguided however. I dont really have time to argue at present but I will say because my earlier rant was a somewhat unclear expression of my opinion.

If we have local gubberment at all, then it should be FOR defined purposes, and paid for BY the landowners in the area. Unless of course you support someithing like Thatcher's poll tax which was an alternate funding model that was so very sucessful in Britain in the late '80's. If you accept that hypothesis (do you? if not why not?) then what matters is not the self selected wildly variable colour of the skin of the person flushing the toilet, or putting the rubbish out, it is the fact that the tolet flushes or the rubbish is collected that is important.

One person, one vote, make the trains run on time, the dunnies flush, dont give in to pressure groups:job done.

Well firstly, the issue here is representation and the reason why Maori should/shouldn't feature in the decision making process at the level of local government (as they do at national level).


You have then chosen to take a swipe at the need for local government at all, and subsequently put forward your ideas on how it should be elected and for what purpose...(is that a retraction of you earlier statement that it is not needed at all?)

As far as point one - see Hitcher's links to the TOW.


On point two - start a separate thread cause that ain't the issue. However for the record: No. I am ideologically opposed to the idea of people paying to participate in a democratic process. It would no longer be a democratic process


As for "successful in Britain in the 80s" - hows the weather on your planet?

[ManDownUnder]

I want compulsory non Maori seats in the Maori party, the number to be prorated to match the general population of NZ.

I also want the land back that was taken from my relatives because they took it from the Maori. I had nothing to do with those exchanges and am now at a significant financial disadvantage. I'll draft the Treaty of Kumeu and invite a suitable number of local representatives to sign it.

I want to start the Non Maori Party, have non Maori TV, seek sponsorship for the Non Maori All Blacks, and would like the Govt to consider Non Maori tertiary Education facilities.

... I think I missed a few things - but that'll do for this week.

[short-circuit]

I believe I made it clear that is was a misquote by highlighting the changed words in red. I didn't say it DID apply, just making the point that it is a racist situation to apply any form of government, national or local, on race.

.........Fail.

[short-circuit]

I want compulsory non Maori seats in the Maori party, the number to be prorated to match the general population of NZ

And there's a need for that because......?

[ManDownUnder]

Oh hang on... look at that - I just realised that Treaty of Waitangi is a TREATY! A treatice on how to live nicely together.

It's not a constitution madating rights and prerogatives in respect of the state, individuals or groups of individuals (the right to form militias comes to mind in respect of the groups).

[ManDownUnder]

And there's a need for that because......?

They're racist otherwise (although they'd never actually admit to that...)

[short-circuit]

They're racist otherwise (although they'd never actually admit to that...)

I don't follow. According to what criteria? And who are "they"?

[short-circuit]

Oh hang on... look at that - I just realised that Treaty of Waitangi is a TREATY! A treatice on how to live nicely together.

It's not a constitution madating rights and prerogatives in respect of the state, individuals or groups of individuals (the right to form militias comes to mind in respect of the groups).

????? It's referred to in law and statutes.

In fact it's international law also. See Contra Proferentum

[humphrt]

If you want to discard this agreement and lumber the taxpayers of New Zealand with the consequences of that

What the ?!@#$. I was under the impression that the taxpayer has already more than paid its dues. I dont know the exact number but i think its in the order of billions. When is enough enough. I want to be a part of a united New Zealand but it seems that the Maori Party among others dont want this. Everything they seem to do drives a wedge into this country.

[idb]

Even a Minister of Maori Affairs is rascist. Candidates for seats should rise or fall on their own merits and if you read the Treaty of Waitangi (Hobson's correct version, not the sterilized, twisted version we currently have jammed down our throats) it states that "We are now one people".

If that's the case, and it should be, then it's one rule for all; regardless of race, colour or creed.

But...the Minister of Maori Affairs doesn't have to be a Maori.

[Hitcher]

What the ?!@#$. I was under the impression that the taxpayer has already more than paid its dues.

Those are the "dues" from breaches the Crown has made to the Treaty itself. There are still many of these still to be resolved. Remove the Treaty and we'd probably start with a clean slate based on today's asset values, not to mention all private ownership titles being null and void. Feel like buying your house back at its current RV?

Indeed removing the Treaty removes our Government. Think Maori seats are an issue now?

[humphrt]

Too poor to own a house. Maybe if im 1/32 maori though the gubberment will hook me up

I think everyone has a right to be elected to a seat on any council(thingy). I dont think its very democratic to say only maori can have these 3 seats. Just the same as i dont think europeans should have specific seats. All people are equal they should have the same rights. But rights are earned not a given.

[ManDownUnder]

I don't follow. According to what criteria? And who are "they"?

The Maori party. I want white fullas in there too.

????? It's law and statute.

In fact it's international law also.

It's a contract, a formal agreement interpreted according to the law... but it... is... not... a ... law.

It's also a flawed contract, with misinterpretations causing confusion between the two variants signed, both in good faith I might add. So how does it get enforced? How CAN it get enforced?

I personally think we need to to amend it, superscede it with a Treaty of Waitangi II. And I'm not trying to be slippery here. It needs very careful consideration and obviously need to be entered into in good faith as I expect the last one was. it neds to be fair, honest, and encompass all thsoe things that we now know about our fair land and the Maori/non Maori relations, and encompass internation relations also (i.e. "fisheries" now extend... 200 miles out to sea???).

It also needs to ebrace the concept of future change, such that it can be amended over time to stay current and fair.

[Maha]

The Maori party. I want white fullas in there too.

Bring Back Mat Rata.
or someone like him cos he be dead.