Hide accused of playing race card

[ManDownUnder]

Bring Back Mat Rata.
or someone like him cos he be dead.

Took-a-lotta-money-Morgan?

[Maha]

Took-a-lotta-money-Morgan?

Too many crooked bastards at the Beehive, they have weeded out the shameless over the years, but some have slipped back in. Mr Rata on the other hand, was good honest bloke, and highly thought of by the many.

Sort of the 'Brown Norm Kirk'.

[SixPackBack]

The Maori party. I want white fullas in there too......................

By many measures the party contains little else but white fellas.

[HenryDorsetCase]

So you don't believe in local democracy then? I am curious as to why you think that this is stupid/redundant.

4 million people clustered on a precipice on the edge of the world. We have national gubberment, regional gubberment, and local gubberment. Wny? You and I have to pay them, and they've all got their trotters well and truly in the trough.

If local decision making is good, then fine, and regional planning could be done on a national basis (crikey the country isnt that big) so maybe there is a justifcation for two layers. Maybe.

I think we only need one lot of pollies, all accountable every election cycle (ban polititcal parties and in particular their enshrining in statute in MMP and "party jumping" legislation.). One land owning man, one vote.

thats right. No women, and if you dont own land you shouldnt be able to vote.

sorry. is that OT.

[Ixion]

So you don't believe in local democracy then? I am curious as to why you think that this is stupid/redundant.

It's a nice idea. If they ever try it anywhere in this country I shall watch with interest.

[Ixion]

..Unless of course you support someithing like Thatcher's poll tax which was an alternate funding model that was so very sucessful in Britain in the late '80's. ...

Baroness Thatcher's poll tax was flawed in execution, not concept. Mainly because the implementation and execution was left to those same empire building local governmental bodies.

The principle is sound and considerably fairer than present methods.

[short-circuit]

Baroness Thatcher's poll tax was flawed in execution, not concept.

The principle is sound and considerably fairer than present methods.

Excuse me? A communist that supports a flat tax?

[Ixion]

Well, actually I don't support any tax. Don't need taxes when the means of production distribution etc are in public ownership.

But if , whilst awaiting the revolution, you have to have a tax for local purposes (as distinct from national), a poll tax is fairer than most. Particularly if you make local government stick to its knitting

[short-circuit]

Well, actually I don't support any tax. Don't need taxes when the means of production distribution etc are in public ownership.

But if , whilst awaiting the revolution, you have to have a tax for local purposes (as distinct from national), a poll tax is fairer than most. Particularly if you make local government stick to its knitting

Come on Ixion....Just be slightly pragmatic (we don't live in a Communist state - sad though that be may) So hows a flat tax gonna help or allow representation for the poor.

You're essentially proposing a User Pays system

[Hitcher]

Excuse me? A communist that supports a flat tax?

From memory the poll tax was a way of allocating local government costs on a per head, rather than per property basis. I don't think that's quite the same as a flat tax on income.

[MisterD]

(we don't live in a Communist state - sad though that be may)

Care to trade in your Street Triple for the two-wheeled equivalent of a Lada?

[Ixion]

Come on Ixion....Just be slightly pragmatic (we don't live in a Communist state - sad though that be may) So hows a flat tax gonna help or allow representation for the poor.

You're essentially proposing a User Pays system

Well, your original query was why a Communist supported a poll tax (which as Mr Hitcher notes is a tax based on a per head , or per family, basis , rather than on property value, not a flat tax. ).

If we did have a Communist state we obviously couldn't have a property based tax, cos there wouldn't be any personal real property TO tax. But there would be little point in a poll tax either, just one hand taking from the other.

As we don't live in a Communist state, we must manage as efficient and fair a system as we can in the meantime.

The present rating system is very inefficient. Communists may deplore that as much as capitalists (more so indeed, because Communists are more logical) .

Local government should NOT , IMHO , be concerned with 'rectifying' issues of poverty . That is the business of central government. Local government is to provide services and amenities. (I'm not clear why 'representation' of the poor should be a separate issue - rich or poor, one vote. The poor will always outvote the rich cos there are more of them)

[short-circuit]

Well, your original query was why a Communist supported a poll tax (which as Mr Hitcher notes is a tax based on a per head , or per family, basis , rather than on property value, not a flat tax. ).

If we did have a Communist state we obviously couldn't have a property based tax, cos there wouldn't be any personal real property TO tax. But there would be little point in a poll tax either, just one hand taking from the other.

As we don't live in a Communist state, we must manage as efficient and fair a system as we can in the meantime.

The present rating system is very inefficient. Communists may deplore that as much as capitalists (more so indeed, because Communists are more logical) .

Local government should NOT , IMHO , be concerned with 'rectifying' issues of poverty . That is the business of central government. Local government is to provide services and amenities. (I'm not clear why 'representation' of the poor should be a separate issue - rich or poor, one vote. The poor will always outvote the rich cos there are more of them)

So you don't think that the capital value of the property owned should come into the cost of rates?

A poll tax would be premised on the basis that everyone is equal and clearly thats not so.....

"I live in a mansion but I only use one shithouse"?

I think not.

[short-circuit]

Care to trade in your Street Triple for the two-wheeled equivalent of a Lada?

You'll need to do better than that

[Hitcher]

So you don't think that the capital value of the property owned should come into the cost of rates?

Most reviews of rating systems concur that capital value-based rating is a blunt and ponderous instrument. Rates also provide erroneous assumptions about what local government does. So why does local government still rate on the basis of capital value? Because it's easy.

Rates are nothing more than a tax to fund local government services and amenities. You'll always people who say that they aren't on city water or don't go to the library, swim in the pools or whatever. Tough. It's like your central government taxes: you pay for education if you don't have kids, the army if you're a pacifist, drought assistance to sheep farmers if you're a vegetarian, etc.