ACC - How to get the nation's motorbike bill down

[yachtie10]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantar View Post
Rather than compulsion, it is encouragement, and may have more backing than outright compulsion.

Now that makes sense.

totally agree

[PirateJafa]

are there existing standards for gear such as jackets,pants and boots?
Perhaps there could be two levels....0-50 and 50-100

But I have to travel though a short 60km/h zone on my commute.

Yet I occasionally dare to just wear jeans?

Think of the children, Mr. Pirate, oh the humanity!




One of the stupidest ideas post on KB in, oh, nearly a whole week.

[Paul in NZ]

How about a sliding rego content scale. Cause an accident and it goes up, go 5 years without an acc claim (M/C related) and you get a discount. Too many claims (blame attributed to you) and rego goes through the roof.

[James Deuce]

Good grief.

If you think ACC is expensive now, just wait until you have to pay for "authorised" gear from a list of approved safety equipment.

You've heard of market forces right? That $899 helmet or jacket you're wearing will retail for thousands. Captive markets and monopolies. Great idea.

How about, instead of being a bunch whiny crybabies, you simply decide what your minimum specs for gear are, wear that and stop with the narrow minded bigoted lectures? When people ask you what you wear on a bike, quietly and politely explain what you wear and why, without calling other people who don't do it the same way you do idiots.

People crash (and die) for two reasons:

1. Most Common cause of accidents is small penis syndrome. Stop riding like tiny little dicks!
2. Very, very rare: Unforeseen, unplanned, unpredictable events. Just a hint - gravel mid-corner is not unpredictable, even when it isn't sign posted. People emerging from side roads or driveways with little or no warning is neither unforeseen nor unpredictable.

Stop whinging about what people do or don't wear or how they ride. Tell them directly the same way you post here and see how that works out for you.

ACC Levies will never drop. They only go in one direction. Don't want them to go up? Don't bloody crash on the road.

[Headbanger]

Good grief.

If you think ACC is expensive now, just wait until you have to pay for "authorised" gear from a list of approved safety equipment.

You've heard of market forces right? That $899 helmet or jacket you're wearing will retail for thousands. Captive markets and monopolies. Great idea.

How about, instead of being a bunch whiny crybabies, you simply decide what your minimum specs for gear are, wear that and stop with the narrow minded bigoted lectures? When people ask you what you wear on a bike, quietly and politely explain what you wear and why, without calling other people who don't do it the same way you do idiots.

People crash (and die) for two reasons:

1. Most Common cause of accidents is small penis syndrome. Stop riding like tiny little dicks!
2. Very, very rare: Unforeseen, unplanned, unpredictable events. Just a hint - gravel mid-corner is not unpredictable, even when it isn't sign posted. People emerging from side roads or driveways with little or no warning is neither unforeseen nor unpredictable.

Stop whinging about what people do or don't wear or how they ride. Tell them directly the same way you post here and see how that works out for you.

ACC Levies will never drop. They only go in one direction. Don't want them to go up? Don't bloody crash on the road.

Fuckin excellent.

[JATZ]

Don't want them to go up? Don't bloody crash on the road.

Yebut.......MotoX riders wearing all the right gear and riding unregisitered bikes still crash and hurt themselves. How much of the ACC levee goes towards fixing them up ? Also....+1 for Jantars idea

Just something I've been wondering ?

[Genestho]

Good grief.

If you think ACC is expensive now, just wait until you have to pay for "authorised" gear from a list of approved safety equipment.

You've heard of market forces right? That $899 helmet or jacket you're wearing will retail for thousands. Captive markets and monopolies. Great idea.

How about, instead of being a bunch whiny crybabies, you simply decide what your minimum specs for gear are, wear that and stop with the narrow minded bigoted lectures? When people ask you what you wear on a bike, quietly and politely explain what you wear and why, without calling other people who don't do it the same way you do idiots.

People crash (and die) for two reasons:

1. Most Common cause of accidents is small penis syndrome. Stop riding like tiny little dicks!
2. Very, very rare: Unforeseen, unplanned, unpredictable events. Just a hint - gravel mid-corner is not unpredictable, even when it isn't sign posted. People emerging from side roads or driveways with little or no warning is neither unforeseen nor unpredictable.

Stop whinging about what people do or don't wear or how they ride. Tell them directly the same way you post here and see how that works out for you.

ACC Levies will never drop. They only go in one direction. Don't want them to go up? Don't bloody crash on the road.

That sounds like the Biker version of "what a wonderful world"

Teeeheeee, JD, may I use "ACC Levies will never drop. They only go in one direction. Don't want them to go up? Don't bloody crash on the road." as resource for a poster?

[rainman]

While we're at it - lets limit motorcycles to 250cc. That will keep accident costs down too.

And get rid of all those go-too-fast sporties, while you're at it...

when you buy new motorcycling safety gear (jacket, gloves etc) that you take your receipt along at rego time and receive a discount on the ACC levy portion of 10% of the amount you have spent on gear. eg, buy a $300 jacket and receive $30 discount on ACC levies.

Good intentions, but I think it would just put up safety gear prices by 10%.

How about a sliding rego content scale. Cause an accident and it goes up, go 5 years without an acc claim (M/C related) and you get a discount. Too many claims (blame attributed to you) and rego goes through the roof.

Now I like that.

You've heard of market forces right? That $899 helmet or jacket you're wearing will retail for thousands. Captive markets and monopolies. Great idea.

Yup, that's about it.

People crash (and die) for two reasons:

1. Most Common cause of accidents is small penis syndrome. Stop riding like tiny little dicks!
2. Very, very rare: Unforeseen, unplanned, unpredictable events. Just a hint - gravel mid-corner is not unpredictable, even when it isn't sign posted. People emerging from side roads or driveways with little or no warning is neither unforeseen nor unpredictable.

Stop whinging about what people do or don't wear or how they ride. Tell them directly the same way you post here and see how that works out for you.

ACC Levies will never drop. They only go in one direction. Don't want them to go up? Don't bloody crash on the road.

Please stop it James, I'm agreeing with you far too much. I might end up thinking you're sensible.

[James Deuce]

Yebut.......MotoX riders wearing all the right gear and riding unregisitered bikes still crash and hurt themselves. How much of the ACC levee goes towards fixing them up ? Also....+1 for Jantars idea

Just something I've been wondering ?

No one (ACC and LTNZ or whatever it's called) cares about offroad accidents. Recreational injuries are an accepted part of a physically active and healthy population.

On road accidents are subject to scrutiny in minute detail, and analysis to support the premise of removing motorcycles from the road.

[p.dath]

...
If you think ACC is expensive now, just wait until you have to pay for "authorised" gear from a list of approved safety equipment.

You've heard of market forces right? That $899 helmet or jacket you're wearing will retail for thousands. Captive markets and monopolies. Great idea.
.

Demand for safety gear will only increase for that sector of the market which currently does not have safety gear. Generally supply increase to meet demand, and certainly will in a normal supply and demand economy like ours.

So there may be a short term price increase until supply picks up, but I don't relistically think you could expect prices to increase "just because".


Do you really feel you pay more for your helmet because it is a legal requirement to have one? And lets pretend that you do - is that any reason why we shouldn't have it a mandated law?
Any potential small one off increase in the cost of your helmet/gear purchase is more than likely going to be offset in savings (or reduce increases) in ACC.

Certainly suggest a $900 item will increase to several thousand dollars is nothing more than scare mongering.

How about, instead of being a bunch whiny crybabies, you simply decide what your minimum specs for gear are, wear that and stop with the narrow minded bigoted lectures? When people ask you what you wear on a bike, quietly and politely explain what you wear and why, without calling other people who don't do it the same way you do idiots.

The issue is those that don't choose to wear safety gear, the minority, cause us, the majority, to pay more for our ACC premiums. We, the majority, don't want to pay for those people who choose to wear no safety gear to recover from accidents.

If you use emotive speech when you complain about people being cry babies then you may get emotive speech back. I haven't seen anyone call anyone on this thread an idiot. Could be wrong.

1. Most Common cause of accidents is small penis syndrome. Stop riding like tiny little dicks!

The problem is that they wont stop riding in dangerous manners. And that leads to the problem of everyone else paying increased ACC premiums. If they wont stop voluntarily taking a risk the majority don't wish to accept, then that only leaves regulation.

ACC Levies will never drop. They only go in one direction. Don't want them to go up? Don't bloody crash on the road.

How about we work on abating further increases then? It would be good if motorcycle ACC costs could fall percentage wise to match the number of motorcyclists on the road so that our group was not over represented in the accident statistics.

[Pedrostt500]

To my understanding when some one is brought into hospital with an injury from a motorcycle accident, Cause of accident is ticked as motorcycle accident, this does not define between an on road accident or an off road accident, and keep in mind fataities happen in off road accidents as well, the only motor cycling groups that pays an acc levey are farmers and road motorcyclists.
How you charge the weekend off road warrior an acc levey I dont know.

[p.dath]

To my understanding when some one is brought into hospital with an injury from a motorcycle accident, Cause of accident is ticked as motorcycle accident, this does not define between an on road accident or an off road accident, and keep in mind fataities happen in off road accidents as well, the only motor cycling groups that pays an acc levey are farmers and road motorcyclists.
How you charge the weekend off road warrior an acc levey I dont know.

I think the idea is recreational accidents (off road, soccer, rugby, etc) are covered by your work place ACC levy.

[Max Preload]

The big problem is striking the balance between maintaining peoples freedom and enjoyment of an activity with the cost of it to the rest of the population.

Funny you should say something like that - "cost to the rest of the population".

I've just received my annual Coastguard membership renewal for $95. I think it was $80 last year. It's not much, but ever since they started doing unlimited callouts per member instead of limiting it to 3 per annum as previously, the price has been rising. I feel this is because there are people out there who are not maintaining their boats as they should (I often listen to the VHF at home and have noticed a steady increase in these type of calls) and I as I object to subsidising the actions of fuckwits, I'm seriously considering not renewing. It's exactly the reason I don't have motorvehicle insurance too - everyone pays more because there are clowns out there writing off new bikes regular as clockwork and I'll be damned if I'm paying for it.

[p.dath]

Funny you should say something like that - "cost to the rest of the population".

I've just received my annual Coastguard membership renewal for $95. I think it was $80 last year. It's not much, but ever since they started doing unlimited callouts per member instead of limiting it to 3 per annum as previously, the price has been rising.

I don't know anything about the coastguard. If it is a membership, how did the rule change occurr? Was it something the membership voted on?

It's exactly the reason I don't have motorvehicle insurance too - everyone pays more because there are clowns out there writing off new bikes regular as clockwork and I'll be damned if I'm paying for it.

Not even third party? Brave man. What if the 1 in 1000 happens and you crash into a really expensive car, and end up oweing $100k or something?

The private insurance market is pretty competitive (ACC has no competition so ...). Usuaully if they spot one sector causing more accidents they charge them more. If one sector is accident free they usually charge less.

[James Deuce]

Long winded rant about how I'm wrong

Helmets are a poor example. There is a lot of competition and relatively high demand, and very large markets everywhere except NZ. Once you create a minimum standard for motorcycle apparel you will HAVE to certify equipment to a NZ standard and that will mean that a large number of items will have to be evaluated. NZ Standards simply does not have the resource to do that, so you'll either end up with a market the same as it is now effectively unregulated so long as it meets particular standards set in particular countries, or a very truncated list of stuff that ACC, NZTA and Standards NZ have approved. The smaller the list, the more expensive each item will be. You have an over inflated idea of how many motoryclicts there are in NZ. We do not weild the economic power to stop ACC raising levies, let alone being considered as serious transport.

You're overstating the case about how individual choice impacts your ACC costs. At the moment you are getting a 50% subsidy from ACC. All they want to do is get us to pay for what we cost them.

There is only one way to fix that: Individual Personal Responsibility.

The last thing we need as a group is a collective apparel contract designed for lowest common denominator.

You are supposed to be paying nearly $500/annum for your ACC levy. ACC have repeatedly stated that it is their intention to legislate motorcycling in NZ out of existence. Your argument directly plays into their mindset. Like most NZers you seem to think that what the Government tells you, what the media relays, is the global picture. It is not. Most motorcyclists are not the idiots you think they are and they certainly do not need to be told what to wear when riding a motorcycle.

Look after your own perceived issues and you will do motorcycling a service. Try to mandate how everybody else does it and you simply help the propaganda machine that says we are incapable of sorting our own shit out and have to be babied.