Wellington Parking - They are about to clamp down on bike parking

[Clockwork]

Forgive me for being synical, but having travelled in cars for a number of year, I have seen a trend by your companies. Keep the rates reasonable until everyone gets used to using the parking, and then slowly but surely, hike up the prices.

Or worse... if enough riders started to use them the Council would see the opportunity to replace "unused" motorcycle parking with P&D car parking... then the off-road rates would go up.

If there has been an increase in bike/scooter numbers it will be because commuters have responded to conditions... public transport, congestion and parking charges and where able, have chosen to convert there chosen mode of transport. Many riders pay inflated registration and insurance charges to use their bikes and free and convenient parking is an part of the calculation that riders include in their decision making process. Moving us into off-road parking will make a significant impact on the economics of the commute.

Right now the Council seem to believe that the on-road parking serves the city's retail outlets. I doubt that very much. I suspect that this city's retail outlets exist almost entirely on the backs of the commuters that come here Monday to Friday (including the motorcyclists)

As telecommuting becomes more practical many CBD employers will seek to reduce their high rental/power bills by encouraging more and more employees to telecommute, my own employer is already moving this way. At the moment, for professional and social reasons I would rather make the daily journey into Wellington but as my transport options become less palatable I will become more amenable to telecommuting.

When the commuters have been driven out of the city who will bother travelling into Wellington just to access the retail outlets when there are already better and more convenient options in the outer suburbs. Ones with free parking, shop conveniently close to each other, and in the warm and dry.

I challenge you once more, Jon. Look at the southern end of Featherstone St behind the ANZ building, how many car spaces would you need to surrender to completely resolve the bike parking problems on Grey st? Look at the last 10m of that road where parking is prohibited altogether. Is bike parking really that big-a-problem elsewhere in the city? Why do you insist on attempting to crack this nut with such an unpopular sledge hammer?

[vhot]

Jon Visser said:
In New Zealand the colours used for road marking are specified by law. Anything contrary to the law would not be enforcable and may cause accidents or people being unfairly ticketed (e.g. if Wellington used different colours from the rest of the country then this would confuse people, especially visitors to our city).

We managed to get green bus lanes painted all around Wellington. (How long did that take to get into law?) I am not sure how many other cities in NZ have these bus lanes, but surely it can't be too laborious to bring in a 'change of law' to allow for green painted motorbike parking spaces?

Next we will be hearing how the council will want to make bicycle riders pay to park their bicycles.

[Jon Visser]

How about converting the parking bays along side 40 Customhouse Quay to bike parking. (photo included). This is a spot that is close enough to the CBD but not a spot that car drivers would normally use for their 20 min quick shop!
There is ample room along that building that would not interfere with pedestians as there is already car parking and a footpath and it could fit in 30-40 bikes (or even more if bike bays are marked). And it would not affect a large number of car parking spots.

And if you also included along no 34, your talking about close to 100 extra bike spots which ARE close enough but not interfering with the CBD foot traffic.

I assume you mean the section along Shed 11? There is no footpath here at all (pedestrians would have to walk on the live carriageway or amongst the motorcycles) and quite a lethal area to be manouvering bikes. I'm surprised we even have a parking bay here (we'd rather put in a footpath!) but we had to keep this facility as it is actually there for diplomatic cars only (for the adjacent embassy) though cars and motorcycles can use this area at night and in the weekends for free.

Are the council prepared to listen to the suggestions of those affected or are you on here just giving lip service as a PR excercise and revenue gathering is the driving force.

Yes - we are prepared to listen and act on your suggestions. Where the suggestions are turned down, I am hopefully providing information that will assist people to understand what needs to be considered to create new spaces (though I fear I must just sound like someone who keeps saying no...). What you want to see is some of these suggestions being successful (i.e. not just all being turned down). I am happy to report that your suggestions have resulted in two new free motorcycle parking areas being created within the last week - space for about 20 motorcycles has just been marked in our Clifton Terrace car park and I have just arranged for a small one to be put in on Cable Street by Chaffers Street.

In looking at the Grey Street pressure area (and following on from your suggestions to re-visit the broken-yellow-line spaces where these are for sight-lines only) I am just in the process of proposing that the section of Featherston Street just before Hunter Street with broken yellow lines be converted to motorcycle parking. The current restriction exists to give Featherston Street traffic adequate visibility of the buses coming from Hunter Street. However, a lot of cars and delivery trucks abuse that space and park illegally, blocking that sight line. If this was motorcycle parking only, the motorcycles would actually be assisting with keeping the sight lines open, and as an added benefit it is right next to our public shower facilities where people could get changed from their riding gear into work clothes (under shelter). That could potentially provide space for about 10 bikes or scooters (though as explained before, nowhere near the 550 shortage we have and therefore in parallel to creating new spaces where we can we will continue to encourage motorcycles to park off the road).

Please do keep those suggestions coming...

[Clockwork]

Jon, you cite that 550 number but I doubt there are 550 bikes parked illegally around Wellington on any given workday let alone 550 that are actually causing the problems around Grey St. Indeed, I'd suggest that there were less than 20 Bikes causing the problems around there.

[Jon Visser]

Jon, you cite that 550 number but I doubt there are 550 bikes parked illegally around Wellington on any given workday let alone 550 that are actually causing the problems around Grey St. Indeed, I'd suggest that there were less than 20 Bikes causing the problems around there.

At one point we counted 50 illegally parked bikes in Grey Street alone (and I have the photos to prove it). You only need to look at a few key places like Boulcott Street (20), Courtenay Precinct (40), Victoria Street (15) etc for the numbers to add up very quickly. There are many smaller streets with only one or two which don't look like many on their own (see the photo essay that someone posted a thread to) but they do all add up. It is a real problem to other road users that we are finding a reasonable and practical solution to.

[Hawkeye]

I assume you mean the section along Shed 11? There is no footpath here at all (pedestrians would have to walk on the live carriageway or amongst the motorcycles) and quite a lethal area to be manouvering bikes. I'm surprised we even have a parking bay here (we'd rather put in a footpath!) but we had to keep this facility as it is actually there for diplomatic cars only (for the adjacent embassy) though cars and motorcycles can use this area at night and in the weekends for free.


Please do keep those suggestions coming...

While in some way's I agree with you, there could easily be a line painted (or even bollards) marking the demarcation of the foot traffic from the bike parking. If the bays were actually painted at an angle, again this would reduce the physical footprint that bikes would take up.
I would like to ask how many times diplomatic cars use this site and actually how many car spaces they require. There is room to fit about 20 cars there. How many times does an embassy have 20 diplomatic cars rolling up?
What I'm suggesting will also create a space that pedestians can use.
Even if only half was made available to bikes, it would help.

While I'm on the suggestion theme:
There a two car parks on Customhouse Quay between Grey St and the Optimation House ramp to the underground car park. (pic included). This is a defined size due to the restrictions of the corner on one side and the ramp on the other. Could this site not be a possiblility for converting to bike parking. It would not interfere with any other bays due to the physical constraints of the corner and the ramp. Yet it would also help to eleviate the Grey St. overcrowding.

[Hawkeye]

At one point we counted 50 illegally parked bikes in Grey Street alone (and I have the photos to prove it). You only need to look at a few key places like Boulcott Street (20), Courtenay Precinct (40), Victoria Street (15) etc for the numbers to add up very quickly. There are many smaller streets with only one or two which don't look like many on their own (see the photo essay that someone posted a thread to) but they do all add up. It is a real problem to other road users that we are finding a reasonable and practical solution to.

Hi Jon,

I would love to see that photograph that shows 50 'illegally' parked bikes on Grey st. Because no matter how I work it out, (10 along the wall of ANZ, another 6/7 on the other side of the path, 4/5 between trees etc) There is no way I can see how the figure can reach 50. How about posting said photo on here as evidence to back up your claims. Because without hard evidence, it's just another statement that may be true (or not).

[Jon Visser]

I would love to see that photograph that shows 50 'illegally' parked bikes on Grey st. Because no matter how I work it out, (10 along the wall of ANZ, another 6/7 on the other side of the path, 4/5 between trees etc) There is no way I can see how the figure can reach 50. How about posting said photo on here as evidence to back up your claims. Because without hard evidence, it's just another statement that may be true (or not).

When we took the survey, there were exactly 49 bikes illegally parked along Grey Street (most of them in the section outside the ANZ, photos included) between Jervois Quay and Lambton Quay, including near the intersections with the Quays and Featherston Street (some photos included as examples - I could only upload a maximum of 6 files). Note that any motorcycle parked other then wholly inside the roadmarkings for a motorcycle parking bay are technically considered "illegal".

[scracha]

Again, it costs me no more than $40 a month (including maintenance costs and WoF Rego etc) to ride my bike to work. Why would I see this as 'value for money' when you have just effectively doubled my costs to get to work?

Agreed. $40 would be good value if the parking were secure, covered, RESERVED and had a place to stash your gear.

[Hawkeye]

When we took the survey, there were exactly 49 bikes illegally parked along Grey Street (most of them in the section outside the ANZ, photos included) between Jervois Quay and Lambton Quay, including near the intersections with the Quays and Featherston Street (some photos included as examples - I could only upload a maximum of 6 files). Note that any motorcycle parked other then wholly inside the roadmarkings for a motorcycle parking bay are technically considered "illegal".

Hi Jon,

So the 50 quoted is not only Grey St, but also the surrounding streets which is what I was implying. Of the pics of Grey St shown, I can only count 25 bikes (possibly 26). If you are going to quote numbers like that then the facts need to be correct otherwise... well you work it out.
I am not condoning this parking by the way because I have thought at times, some of the parking there is abismal.

[Drogen Omen]

One option we took was look for a space on the footpath next to a building that is not in the way of any pedestrians. and then look at the boundary lines on the council website for that building and see if the boundaries are far enough out so that you bike is parked inside the lines. then ask the building manager if he is ok with you bike parked there every day. if he says yes then your sorted.

Technically you are parking on private property and the council cant do anything about it.

We did get a couple of parking tickets one day and went back to the council with a letter signed by the building manager saying that this he was ok with us parking on his private property then we showed the council that the boundary lines were well away from his building which meant you could actually park 2 bikes in front of each other on the footpath and still be inside the lines. all the tickets issues to the bikes that were parked there were withdrawn.

That's what we did on Willis street opposite the CopyNZ shop, upper end of Willis..

[IdunBrokdItAgin]

Apologies for the long post.

Just read through most of thread and a few things jump out at me:

1) There seems to be a lot of nit picking going on (50 bikes in grey street or grey street and featherstone combined?). I think the point has been proven that there is a lot of unauthorised parking going on and some of the more exterme parking is not leaving room for the widest pedestrians (prams, mobility chairs etc).

2) There also seems to be an overwheleming voice from the riders that their belief that using bikes releives commuiting stresses on the road system and that the free parking offset the higher road charges bikes have to pay (even though it is ACC that pumps it up).

3) That Wellington retailers beleive that free bike spaces reduce the oppurtunity for day shoppers to come into their stores.

My 2 cents is that:
1) there is a lot of unauthorised parking but most are in unused space which is not required by pedestrians. Fast and hard rules will just cause resentment. I like the idea of an education campaign but I would apply it to dangerously parked bikes not all of them.

2) Riders do help lessen congestion - the council needs to take this into account. Already the bike stand I park in has filled up since word of this has got out (Willis street). If there becomes no free and easy place to park I would revert to commuting with my car and leave the bike for weekends.

3) Commuters make up the vast majority of weekday retailer customers. The golden mile should get to grips with itself and stop blaming slack sales to lack of customer oppurtunity. Try not selling everything at RRP for once (Kirks - apart from once a flippin year). I am always confused why the golden mile has so much power with the council (Jville shopping centre debacle for instance?).

So council: Taking space away from riders may increase congestion. Fining stupidly parked bikes is ok by everyone (but only where pedestrians are put in danger).
Losing a couple of p&ds to alleviate congestion further, or alleviate problem parking wouldn't bankrupt the council would it?

[Str8 Jacket]

You may not see this as value for money and you may determine that public transport is better value.

As I have stated earlier. It costs me 3x more to take public transport that is unreliable, crowded, germ-fested and inconvenient,

[rustic101]

The more I read responses from WCC, through Jon, the more I become suspicious. The old saying, ‘if it looks like a duck; quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, then it’s a duck….I firmly believe that there are wider indications WCC are seeking to increase its revenue.

I’m not going to thrash through the other arguments and counter claims. What I have noticed is that most of the threads are looking at the topic (‘WCC take zero tolerance approach to motorcycle parking’) in isolation.

There are clear financial facts that support WCC is losing revenue from the trains, parking etc Therefore it follows naturally WCC must seek alternative means of gathering revenue.

Some specific questions I have for Jon are:
• How many complaints have been made and over what period?
• Are complaints available (sanitised) by way of an OIA?
• How many injuries have been caused to pedestrian’s vs parked bikes?
• How often is an audit done of all parking spaces to ensure they meet the MOT and LTSA legislation/ Policy? i.e some examples other than parking on a footpath are;
o near a corner, curve, hill, traffic island or intersection, if it will stop other people from seeing along the road
o on, or closer than 6 metres to, an intersection, unless there are parking spaces or a notice telling you that you can park there
o on, or closer than 6 metres to, the approach side of a pedestrian crossing
o closer than 6 metres to a bus stop marked only by a sign
o in front of, or closer than 1 metre to, a vehicle entrance
o on, or closer than 50 centimetres to, a fire hydrant, unless somebody who can move the vehicle stays with it
o on a yellow circle on the road

• Are WCC or Transit going to apply a tariff to vehicles coming into and out of the city?
o Will any Tariff applied be applied to motorcycles?
• Will WCC or Transit be using Automatic Plate Recognition (APR) cameras to conduct this?
• Will WCC be using CCTV ‘safety cameras’ to monitor and electronically issue parking infringement notices?
o What are the legalities and privacy issues of this practice if the answer to the above question is ‘Yes’?

I have the answers to most of the questions above but would like to get an official WCC perspective. This will also allow other site users to have additional information to base their opinions on. I look forward to the reply.

Kind regards

Sam

[sinned]

I’m not going to thrash through the other arguments and counter claims.

There are clear financial facts that support WCC is losing revenue from the trains, parking etc Therefore it follows naturally WCC must seek alternative means of gathering revenue.

Some specific questions I have for Jon are:
- not quoted -

I have the answers to most of the questions above but would like to get an official WCC perspective. This will also allow other site users to have additional information to base their opinions on. I look forward to the reply.

I spent the time "thrash -ing through the other arguments and counter claims" so you could also. Why should Jon answer your questions, and the revenue, cost for parking questions have been well answered. It is quite obvious a lot of KB posters here don't like the answers - but that is another issue.
My view - you should be paying for parking.