You could have been blessed with "Stupid is as stupid does".Originally Posted by James Deuce
Forum whore
You could have been blessed with "Stupid is as stupid does".
Here for the ride.
Hardcore Biker
First of all, I don't commute, so my view is a bit biased.
I'm actually really supportive of Jon Visser and his team's efforts. First, I have seen new bike parks mushrooming between where I live and where I work. Then, the council has taken a pretty light stance on illegal bike parking, which they are only reconsidering now because the issue has become too big. Before they start handing out tickets, they are planning to give notices with maps of bike parks to give us the time to find alternatives. And now, he's negotiating with the car parks and listening to our suggestions for new bike parks (he couldn't grant all our wishes, but at least he's trying).
I certainly appreciate the council's efforts to provide us with free parking, but I don't think we are entitled to it by default, it's just a nice to have. If I had to commute daily, I wouldn't mind renting an off-street car park with 2 or 3 other bikers.
Just my 2c
Forum whore
I know it's only 2c but don't sell yourself so cheap. You will see on-street parking for bikes disappear very shortly. If you don't commute, you won't understand the frustrations a lot of commuters have to put up with.,
None of the car parking companies will let you share a park with other bikes. I've already asked Wilson Parking if I could do that with my employer paid for carpark, but they'll only do it if the other guys pay the same monthly rate for the park.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
111000101000100010011110
what pricks, isnt it the space you are renting? not what gets put in it. Tell him two bikes constitutes perambulator!
"A shark on whiskey is mighty risky, but a shark on beer is a beer engineer" - Tad Ghostal
RAMbo
It still seems to boil down to the same thing.
History is as follows
- Currently bikes park for free in predetermined spaces.
- Use of bikes helps to alleviate congestion (offset for the use of free parking). Anyone care to argue this or is this a given?
- Council is unable/ unwilling to meet the demand for increased spaces in line with (bike useage) growth. Which can be evidenced by the increase in illegal parking.
- Private contractors being asked to supply overflow bike parking.
- Issue came about due to complaints about illegal parking (predominantly on Grey Street).
Whilst I sympathise with the responsibilities of the council it stills smells wrong to me. It seems like the first move to remove free parking for bikes.
May I ask one question to Jon at the council: "Is their any fee sharing agreement going on with the private suppliers of the new motorcycle parks?"
In fact let me ask another more important question: "Why can't the council require all private carparks to assist in the creation of more FREE parking for bikes?"
Staff costs etc that was bRought up before is bull, I've never had to speak to anyone in a carpark before (unless the machine is broke) and they all have waivers about damage/ loss to vehicles or property.
<- A new way to take a rubber!
There is still underutilised green space / off road areas which could be converted to motorcycle bays without impacting open space requirements, visibility safety to other users and without costing too much to provide.
I hope the council picks up on the painting the ok off-street areas to park for free. I see some construction for bus parking (?) is taking place at the south end of the Events Centre at Frank Kitts Park.... could be used as motorcycle parking on the offdays when not needed by buses (as the adjacent bus areas are under-utilised). Could be simply implemented by placing a few traffic cones in the area on days when parking is required by buses.
Fair weather rider
That is correct. Letting motorcycles use Pay & Display spaces was trialled quite some time ago, and many bikes ended up with tickets because the pay & display receipts had been blown away, stolen or disintegrated by rain. This was such a fiasco for everyone concerned that the Council enacted the Bylaw that prevented motorcycles from using spaces covered by Pay & Display but it was still OK for two bikes to share a single-head meter bay (as long as someone fed the machine).
Riders are expected to park either in an on-road motorcycle space, all day, for free, within the property/building where they work if this has a parking facility (e.g. in a basement) which could be for free or for a charge (check with your building owner) or off-road in a commercial parking facility.
At the time the Bylaw was made, there was quite a mix of both types of parking. Since then, there has been a concerted effort to replace all single-head meters with Pay & Display machines. Last year there were about 90 single-head meters and this year down to about 50. Typically these only remain where there is only one or two on-road car park for miles around (and therefore usually occupied by cars) or for mobility parking spaces, so these are in general not much use to riders. Also, there are now products available on the market that could allow riders to lock the receipt to their bike (lockable display cases that could be attached to a wheel-lock) and we now use plasticised paper for the receipts. Therefore I would agree that because the situation has changed, it would also be very apropriate to revisit the suitability of our Bylaw. This would make it much more possible for riders who spend short periods of time in the CBD to find a parking space that they can use, noting that there is a maximum time restriction of two hours for Pay & Display spaces.
At $4/hr and a two-hour maximum time limit, making these spaces available to motorcycles to use will not address the problems we are having with commuter parking.
Just to avoid any doubt (or to address the same questions that keep getting asked) we have no intention of making any existing Pay & Display car parking spaces available for motorcycles to use for free unless it can be shown that they have a very low utilisation rate (we have no set target in mind but if the space is vacant say 85% of the time you could argue it is not working very well). We also do not intend to convert any footpath spaces for motorcycles to use - if this was considered appropriate we would have done so by now. There are still some spaces around that we can consider, e.g. the "no-parking" space at the end of Featherston Street.
I personally have no problem with the concept of (a couple of) motorcycles using the Pay & Display spaces as long as they have paid for the use of that space between them (this would support what people are saying, i.e. a more efficient use of road space) and will include this in the next Bylaw review (which will not be for at least a year due to other Bylaw reviews currently being considered by Councillors). To assist with this, maybe people can post some useful suggestions on how to deal with the following practicalities:
* How could receipts be attached to motorcycles so that they are secure and easily (and consistently) visible to wardens? Note that we are not able to replace all our P&D machines with "multi-bay" devices as the cost for this would exceed what we are approved to spend under the LTCCP.
* Council would expect to receive no more and no less than the posted fees for that space per hour of use, regardless of whether there was a car or one or more motorcycles parked in it (since our costs to provide, maintain and manage that space remain the same). If more than one motorcycle was allowed to use a P&D space at the same time, how could this be managed so that each rider doesn't end up paying the full amount each, nor have a situation whereby only one rider pays, and the second bike gets a ticket because the first bike left early?
Forum whore
Mr Visser, the multi-bay parking meter issue has been done to death previously. WCC Councillors have stated that they don't want motorcycles using them and are prepared to stand by that decision, so it isn't going to change unless the attitudes to motorcycles from Councillors in general changes radically.
The only way to deal with it is an RFID tag like a snapper card that is permanently affixed to the bike that meter maids can detect with the right equipment and deduct money from the card to cover parking.
There were a number of responses to that idea but the two that stand out as the most negative were:
1. A motorcycle could occupy a parking bay all day and the Council wants people limited to 60 minutes in the inner city.
2. It's a waste of space. Which is nonsense given that more than 90% of Wellington traffic in the commute and during the business day is occupied by only one person.
From a personal perspective I am wary of any technology that allows my personal vehicle to be monitored by a third party.
If a man is alone in the woods and there isn't a woke Hollywood around to call him racist, is he still white?
Fair weather rider
Note that Wellington is a lot more dense and compact than Auckland, and in order to squeeze in as many amenities as possible we have installed "shortened" spaces at the ends of our on-road parallel car parks (5m instead of 6m). In some cases where there is plenty of room this is OK and we will mark it (e.g. Featherston Street by Waring Taylor Street). Where it is not OK we have marked it with broken yellow lines. Some are still under review. Technically these spaces are not space set aside for parking on, but form part of the carriageway that cars drive on in order to get into or out of their parks.
Someone has raised that with diagonal parks, there is a substantial triangle at the end that could be used for motorcycle parking, and I am looking into that as a possible standard design option for future roading improvements. In recent times, we have turned that space into a "raised footpath" section (i.e. with a kerb around it) that is not very greatly utilised, is difficult from a drainage perspective and makes it impossible for our street cleaners to get their machines around. Having this at road level & marked as suitable for motorcycles to use would make a bit more sense.
Fair weather rider
While I would probably phrase your "history" list slightly differently, it does pretty much come down to that, excepting that we have not engaged any "contractors" to provide "overflow parking". We are expecting motorcycle riders to park appropriately, which may include the use of a commercial public parking garage. There is no arrangement, financial or otherwise, between the Wellington City Council and any of the commercial parking garages in relation to motorcycle parking (we only have some agreements in place for weekend car parking and parking for Council-owned vehicles). All these garages are entirely private companies that are expected to achieve returns for their shareholders on the investment they have made in their asset (and therefore it would not be appropriate to expect them to provide such space for free). My dealings with the garages has been solely to achieve better facilities at a lower cost on behalf of motorcycle riders, in order to alleviate pressures on our publc parking assets.
Fair weather rider
First flyer PDF attached. Second one will include maps.
Error 0x805660
Although the flyer is succinct, without the context of this discussion it would not put me in a good mood if I was a recipient.
In fact i would probably collect a bunch of them, soak them in water and stuff them up the exhaust pipes of a number of WCC vehicles.
RAMbo
Personaly I find the flyer to be polite and would not take offence at it. Map of available locations would be ideal.
Jon, I don't envy your job on this. I still believe that the council approaching private car parks has given them (the car parks) the idea that they can get away with charging for a service which used to be for free (to my understanding bikes could park in unused space for free in private car parks).
Good intention but it seems to have back-fired.
Also, thank you for answering both of my earlier questions.
Fair weather rider
Because wardens do not know when a bike arrives or leaves, it would not be practical for them to make that transaction. A better model would be something like SmartPark, which is activated and deactivated by the user. However, a SmartPark machine out in the open wouldn't survive long (weather or theft). We are currently trialling a new technology like SmartPark but with a barcode sticker that is placed on the vehicle and the user activates and deactivates their on-line account via TXT message. The on-line account can then be topped up via internet banking etc and they only pay for the actual time used. Ths is much more secure as no-one else can use the same barcode unless they also steal the mobile phone number associated with it. Wardens simply scan the barcode and their hand-held gadget shows whether the barcode has been activated for the correct area and they have not exceeded the maximum limit. This could be a potential solution, but I'd still like to hear other ideas.
Forum whore
Auckland seem to manage just fine. Perhaps you could contact Brian Tomlinson , General manager parking (ACC) and find out how they do it.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks