So motorcycle deaths are overrepresented

[James Deuce]

Track days do not produce better road riders.

[rocketman1]

So sad to hear so many bikers are dying.
I believe nothing will change, even in 10 years time.
Bikers will be bikers. Im not being negative, just realistic.

Bikers are there own worst enemies, I have to agree.
There are not many bikers that do not want to pass car doing 100km hr

I have not met one yet. If the car is doing 110 /120+ the biker will still pass it.

Bikers cannot admit that they are not fast, cool, and slow, it just aint right.

You also have to keep up with faster bikers, even though you are not really capable or feel safe doing so. Admit it, you cant lose face can you. Even if it costs you your life.

You cannot change human nature, even if you try for 10 years, 100 years, you cannot admit that your bike, your horse, your steel horse, part of you, the bike that you love, is inferior to the dudes bike in front that you are trying to keep up with.Admit it, Dont ever back down and think about your mates family, etc that are going to miss you when you die, or look after you in a wheel chair. Na dont back down, try to catch up, even if you have to go fast through intersections, and push it hard into the corners, you'll catch up with him....When he visits you in hospital.


You'll be right! Mate Dont back down, your bike is better than his and you are a better rider.

There are not many exceptions to this rule!!!

Yeah Right- Human Nature

[ynot slow]

Rocketman1 you are true,Friday I was running late,was passing a couple of cars and saw 130km,stayed that speed(didn't think I was going that quick)for 5 minutes,caught up with a couple of cars,the prelude in front pulled out to pass although a car was coming,waited then passed,was happy to sit behind at 120-130km for at least 15-20km,no need to pass.Made up some time as well.I'm happy to sit in behind at any speed I feel comfortable with,don't see the sense being in the lead doing 140km just to be in front of a car which is doing 130km.

[MarkH]

What pisses me off is that the cause of the problem generally doesn't get addressed.

e.g.
A biker riding in a 100kph comes into a 45kph corner at 85kph, there is some pea metal partway through and the bike goes down, the rider slides into something solid (tree/post/power pole/whatever) and dies. This is sad and most of us would wish it hadn't happened, even if we don't know the rider personally.
The cause is deemed to be excessive speed. So then the Police attempt to solve the problem by putting a speed camera on a long straight road where bikers and car drivers often exceed the limit.
This does nothing to reduce deaths and so the government consider raising the fines or increasing the demerit points. This will also do nothing to solve the problem.

Why is so little done about the appalling road surfaces (pea metal, tar snakes, etc) around the country?
Why isn't more done to teach riders about the dangers of pushing the boundaries too far and not allowing enough leeway for unexpected things on tight corners like pea metal/tar snakes/diesel/cow dung/potholes/etc?
Why is it that fining drivers is the be all and end all of policing on NZ roads?
Why aren't they trying to help motorcyclists to stay alive instead of trying to punish them for being motorcyclists?


It also occurs to me that many think that more legislation for motorcycle riders is in order. I don't like that thinking and I don't think it is fair. More people are killed or injured during DIY around the house and there is sod all regulation for them. More people are killed or injured during sports & leisure activites with fuck all regulation there either. More people are killed smoking cigarettes but they are for sale in supermarkets, dairies & service stations all over the country - with no license required to purchase them. So why is it that the motorcycle riders are the ones that need more legislation?

[Squiggles]

Hope you're all making submissions... the link is back on page 2: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...3&postcount=18

[madmartin]

I posted the figures earlier. It was carnage.

hmmm my 80's xj turbo had all the power and none of the handling, stands to reason really.

[Brian d marge]

Hope you're all making submissions... the link is back on page 2: http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...3&postcount=18

Filled mine in

Stephen

[Blackbird]

Failure to learn - from a previous accident?
How many have the same accident twice? I'm sorry, I'm still not seeing where you guys are getting your numbers from.

What I was getting at Noel is that a big chunk of the motoring public suffer from what trainers would call "Unconscious Incompetence" i.e. They don't know what they don't know because the current level of driver training is so low. Throw some better quality training in and there's a fighting chance that the penny will drop.

I could bang on all day about it but hope that gives the gist of my thoughts.

[vifferman]

They don't know what they don't know because the current level of driver training is so low. Throw some better quality training in and there's a fighting chance that the penny will drop.

They could replace the current propaganda that supposedly comprises the "education" portion of the "Three E's" with some quality information: how to use flush medians; safe following distances;, being passed doesn't impugn your manhood; amber traffic lights mean "Stop!" not "Accelerate!"; how to handle a skid; courtesy and consideration; when do you have to stop at a pedestrian crossing; safe passing procedures; maintaining vehicle condition for safety; look out for bikes; etc etc.
I think it's obvious by now: no-one's bought the propaganda that "Speed Kills" and if you do 108km/h you're going to crash. It's alos obvious from the large number of tickets issued that a more intelligent approach is needed that just punishing all the killers (seems to be almost all of us!) that regularly exceed the (sometimes ridiculous) speed limits.

[MSTRS:Me]

Why aren't they trying to help motorcyclists to stay alive instead of trying to punish them for being motorcyclists?

2 reasons...
1. 'They' have no idea what it means to be a motorcyclist. And Phil Goff doesn't count.
2. Money. Get some from someone being 'naughty' - or spend some to save him from himself? No contest.

[Katman]

2. Money. Get some from someone being 'naughty' - or spend some to save him from himself? No contest.

And why is that?

My guess is that it's because the highly visible percentage of irresponsible motorcyclists have led them to the belief that we're not worth spending money on.

[MSTRS:Me]

And why is that?

My guess is that it's because the highly visible percentage of irresponsible motorcyclists have led them to the belief that we're not worth spending money on.

More likely that the highly skilled and restrained majority keep the death toll just a little under the watershed for actually doing something about the road conditions.

[Katman]

More likely that the highly skilled and restrained majority keep the death toll just a little under the watershed for actually doing something about the road conditions.

Still in Lah-Lah land then John?

Are you suggesting that they "do something about the road conditions" so it's safer for us to go faster?

[MSTRS:Me]

Heard so much about that place from you, that I thought I'd pop my head in to see what was so great about it.
I'm right tho. If a particular corner (say) claims a lot of lives, it generally gets something done to it. Nobody ever looks at the repeats of that corner all over the country. So, unless motorcyclists kill themselves (and frequently) on every similar corner, only the one with the 'problem' gets fixed. Nothing la-la about that...it's fact.
Edit: And no, I'm not talking about fixing so we can go faster. There are certain commonalities to be found in a variety of crashes, some of which are road conditions. Poor surface, for instance. Yes, there are other factors too, but a decent surface would avoid one of the critical factors.

[Katman]

I think you'll find that the general public believes that motorcyclists should be constrained by the same set of rules that govern the whole of our society.

Until motorcyclists are seen as a whole to be recognising that fact we don't stand a shit show of getting anything changed.