IMPORTANT - Submission To The Government

[short-circuit]

It's not about fair, and I can guarantee that you wouldn't like the increased ACC levies the bureacracy around your idea would bring.

Fair? Don't make me laugh. Motorcyclists are a minority and do not even comprise a credible, threatening voting bloc, because they can't even stop giving each other shit for the type of bike they ride, let alone mount a campaign to prevent a change in Government policy.

A ride on Parliament doesn't let "them" know anything, show 'them" anything, inform "them" of anything.

Protest is a thing of the past. Governments need sound economic reasons to not ban motorcycles, and they need to be informed by professional lobby groups who can demonstrate the sound political and economic benefits of doing so.

Public submissions are a waste of time and change nothing.

Political power is horse trading. If keeping motorcycles legal in NZ came down to banning adventure riding to gain Green support against the bill banning motorcycling would the Adventure riders give publicly voiced support to the idea?

I think not. We're not a political movement, we have no clear long term goals or motivation to meet them and our Modus Operandi seems to consist of impotent whining in forums that have no bearing on outcomes. Like Public Submissions.

The cynic speaks the truth

[Katman]

High risk riders should be penalized.

The fact that I ride an 1100cc sports bike (albeit, a dinosaur) would quite possibly place me in their 'high risk' category - even though I haven't claimed anything from ACC in the last 20 years.

Perhaps we should be looking instead towards a 'user pays' system.

[Maki]

The fact that I ride an 1100cc sports bike (albeit, a dinosaur) would quite possibly place me in their 'high risk' category - even though I haven't claimed anything from ACC in the last 20 years.

Perhaps we should be looking instead towards a 'user pays' system.

You are obviously a low risk rider and the system should recognize that. I am sure stats would prove it.

What I find most unfair about the current system is that owners of more than one bike have to pay multiple ACC levies.

I sometimes wonder if ACC levies should be dropped and registration should be free. The costs would be recovered by taxing fuel at a higher rate. That way you pay more the more you ride (expose yourself to risk) and the more you pollute. Heavy inefficient vehichles that chew up our roads would pay more than light efficient ones.

[Katman]

You are obviously a low risk rider and the system should recognize that.

Quite right - they should.

But currently they don't.

[Squiggles]

I sometimes wonder if ACC levies should be dropped and registration should be free. The costs would be recovered by taxing fuel at a higher rate. That way you pay more the more you ride (expose yourself to risk) and the more you pollute. Heavy inefficient vehichles that chew up our roads would pay more than light efficient ones.

Given the lengths of ya posts i sure hope you've made a submission

[Jantar]

I would also urge everyone to make a submission. BUT please do not copy a standard submission, either adapt it in your own words or make your own origional submission. When a lot of submissions come in all saying exactly the same thing they are lumped together as a single submission from a group.

[cowpatz]

This should open up a can of worms. Should but wont.
If the methodology is applied to other road users does that mean that cars over a certain cc or horsepower rating get taxed higher? Maybe turbo vehicles or boy racer specific types? After all how much power is required to do 100 kmh? Why pick on bikes? If I only do 5000 km a year then why should I pay the same as someone doing 20000 km a year with a significantly higher risk factor?
Should sports players have to pay extra levies? After all physio is one of the biggest on going costs in the ACC system.

We are being targeted because we are easy pickings, don't have good public appeal or support and we will offer little resistance.

What is missed on the bureaucrats is that in the main larger cc bikes are more stable and handle better. They handle the crap NZ roads much better.
It is a shame they have to adopt the "beat em with a stick approach" instead of one of education and training. Driver/rider training is non-existant and this is where the best gains could be made. Roading planners, engineers and construction crews need to be retrained...in the main what is produced is crap. How many roads have you seen where the seal (cheap chip seal) breaks
down and leaves pot holes within weeks of being laid? Reverse camber corners. Liberal application of slippery road marking paint, raised and slippery manhole covers. Loose chip left on road surfaces. Impossibly short merging lanes and some of the most piss poor road signage you will find anywhere. Passing lanes that finish abruptly at a blind corner.

Katman user pays in a country this small is a joke and will not work. What we have ended up with is targeted user pays and that is wrong....If we went true user pays then most farmers or rural towns would have no roading, power or phone. Costs in a country this small need to be spread across the population or minority and special interest groups would wither and die or become elitist....and you can lump biking in there.

Statistics can be manipulated to support practically any argument and this is what is being done here.

I had hope things would improve when Aunty Helen left but it would appear that Steven Joyce has stepped in to pick up the nanny state mantle.

[Genestho]

This should open up a can of worms. Should but wont.
If the methodology is applied to other road users does that mean that cars over a certain cc or horsepower rating get taxed higher? Maybe turbo vehicles or boy racer specific types? After all how much power is required to do 100 kmh? Why pick on bikes? If I only do 5000 km a year then why should I pay the same as someone doing 20000 km a year with a significantly higher risk factor?
Should sports players have to pay extra levies? After all physio is one of the biggest on going costs in the ACC system.

We are being targeted because we are easy pickings, don't have good public appeal or support and we will offer little resistance.

What is missed on the bureaucrats is that in the main larger cc bikes are more stable and handle better. They handle the crap NZ roads much better.
It is a shame they have to adopt the "beat em with a stick approach" instead of one of education and training. Driver/rider training is non-existant and this is where the best gains could be made. Roading planners, engineers and construction crews need to be retrained...in the main what is produced is crap. How many roads have you seen where the seal (cheap chip seal) breaks
down and leaves pot holes within weeks of being laid? Reverse camber corners. Liberal application of slippery road marking paint, raised and slippery manhole covers. Loose chip left on road surfaces. Impossibly short merging lanes and some of the most piss poor road signage you will find anywhere. Passing lanes that finish abruptly at a blind corner.

Katman user pays in a country this small is a joke and will not work. What we have ended up with is targeted user pays and that is wrong....If we went true user pays then most farmers or rural towns would have no roading, power or phone. Costs in a country this small need to be spread across the population or minority and special interest groups would wither and die or become elitist....and you can lump biking in there.

Statistics can be manipulated to support practically any argument and this is what is being done here.

I had hope things would improve when Aunty Helen left but it would appear that Steven Joyce has stepped in to pick up the nanny state mantle.

2 things.

1.You are not the only group targeted.
2. How would it appear that Steven Joyce has done any such thing.

The consultation document is an old Labour led intiative.
Safery Journeys consultation document is open to submission - a PUBLIC document designed for you to HAVE YOUR SAY!

And Jantar is correct, best if everyone uses their own words as individuals.

[Reckless]

I'm starting to wonder if its worth our time to bother putting our personal view across anywhere these days??
We got the anti smacking law no one wanted and just read recently that 80% of the people in Wanganui Didn't want the H and they still got it.
This is still a Democracy isn't it?? LOL!!

[p.dath]

...I copied all the questions into word, so I can then copy and paste the answers back into the online version.
After starting work in the online version and my pc restarted doh! Mondays jobbie...

You know you can also email in your submission?

Keep it in word if it is easier for you, and just email in the whole thing.

[James Deuce]

This is still a Democracy isn't it??

Democracy is being given opportunity to vote for Local and National Government representatives.

What they do once they represent you has nothing to do with Democracy until you;re two weeks out from an election.

[Genestho]

Haven't followed the H bomb. But IMO the wording on the Referendum was never going to do anything anyway.

[Genestho]

You know you can also email in your submission?

Keep it in word if it is easier for you, and just email in the whole thing.

Doh, just understand what you meant, yea I may email it depending on what's added - I may only need to copy paste, because I have research and links to add, it's easier for me to address the topics, keep the document open and going and save it as I go. Sit back and review before I send. Thanks

[p.dath]

This should open up a can of worms. Should but wont.
If the methodology is applied to other road users does that mean that cars over a certain cc or horsepower rating get taxed higher? Maybe turbo vehicles or boy racer specific types? After all how much power is required to
...

That's what public submissions are for cowpatz. If you don't agree or think it can be done better - then tell the Government.

You might think doing a submission will have no effect. But I can assure you doing no submission will definitely have no effect. If you think your view is different from the Governments then it is even more important you put that view forward.

So why not put aside a couple of hours, read the discussion document, and put forward what you think would be best.

No use doing nothing, and then start complaining in 2 years when it starts kicking in.

[Reckless]

Democracy is being given opportunity to vote for Local and National Government representatives.

What they do once they represent you has nothing to do with Democracy until you;re two weeks out from an election.

So true! LOL!!!