IMPORTANT - Submission To The Government

[Grahameeboy]

So are you suggesting we also target high risk sports and activities.....motorsport, rugby, netball, squash, basketball, sky diving, push bikers, infants and those that do things with Gerbils? Better still make it age based. Kinda cuts right across the population doesn't it? So why target motorcyclists?

All we are being asked for is to pay a bit more for ACC levy's and lets face it we are more vunerable than those in motorsport being the higher risk item you use...I don't believe that is unreasonable...over 600cc bikes are capable of 160mph speeds with minimal protection...

[Katman]

All we are being asked for is to pay a bit more for ACC levy's and lets face it we are more vunerable than those in motorsport being the higher risk item you use...I don't believe that is unreasonable...over 600cc bikes are capable of 160mph speeds with minimal protection...

Speak for yourself Graham.

I have no desire to hand more money over to ACC.

[Coldrider]

All we are being asked for is to pay a bit more for ACC levy's and lets face it we are more vunerable than those in motorsport being the higher risk item you use...I don't believe that is unreasonable...over 600cc bikes are capable of 160mph speeds with minimal protection...

ACC EFTPOS direct debit throttle by wire, another sticker for my bike perhaps.

[cowpatz]

All we are being asked for is to pay a bit more for ACC levy's and lets face it we are more vunerable than those in motorsport being the higher risk item you use...I don't believe that is unreasonable...over 600cc bikes are capable of 160mph speeds with minimal protection...

Yeah and the speed limit is 100 kmh. A bigger bike just gets there quicker and safer.

[masterofpuppets]

what i can't undersand is the legislation regarding scooters. a motocyclist on aq learner licence cant carry a pillion, cant do over 70k, and cant ride at night. tey've done a basic handling skills course, and have a machine that is much better equipped to carry a pillion than some cereal box chinese scooter.
if they want to reduce two wheeled accidents, then introduce a scheme for scooter riders. i'd say they need the BHS test more than any motorcyclist. the amount of crashes that i've seen involving scooters at fault is horrendous. i wonder what percentage of the ACC claimants they represent.
Nick

[Grahameeboy]

Speak for yourself Graham.

I have no desire to hand more money over to ACC.

I look at ACC as a form of Insurance....most important thing is to protect our wellbeing.

Your bike levy also covers a) your pillion b) a pedestrian that you hit....remember that fault does not come into it.

I would be very impressed if you could buy private insurance that would provide the extent of cover provided by ACC for anything remotely close to what you pay in motorbike ACC levies...I would take a punt and say unlikely.

Say you end up being paralysed from the waste down after a crash on your bike.

ACC will cover:

• Health Care
• Rehab
• Occupational Therapy
• 80% of your salary - future earnings
• Housing Mods
• Mobility Vehicle that you can drive - $120,000
• Paid Family Care

Call Asteron, Sovereign, Tower etc and ask what they would cover...those in Bold are what you do not get if you are born with a disability.

If you had the choice of either taking ACC or taking Private, you will realise that paying extra ACC levies is the best option

ACC charges (in your words "Targets") people like any other form of Insurance..so what is wrong with a variable rate for cc's

[Grahameeboy]

for owning a bike as they have lower emissions than cars mostly and if everyone rode bikes the planet would "Cool" quicker. (For those that believe
that Carbon Emissions are warming the planet)

Mmmm..the levy has nothing to do with emissions....but we are not friendly when it comes to rubber for our tyres...

[glanvillejon]

It's not about fair, and I can guarantee that you wouldn't like the increased ACC levies the bureacracy around your idea would bring.

Fair? Don't make me laugh. Motorcyclists are a minority and do not even comprise a credible, threatening voting bloc, because they can't even stop giving each other shit for the type of bike they ride, let alone mount a campaign to prevent a change in Government policy.

A ride on Parliament doesn't let "them" know anything, show 'them" anything, inform "them" of anything.

Protest is a thing of the past. Governments need sound economic reasons to not ban motorcycles, and they need to be informed by professional lobby groups who can demonstrate the sound political and economic benefits of doing so.

Public submissions are a waste of time and change nothing.

Political power is horse trading. If keeping motorcycles legal in NZ came down to banning adventure riding to gain Green support against the bill banning motorcycling would the Adventure riders give publicly voiced support to the idea?

I think not. We're not a political movement, we have no clear long term goals or motivation to meet them and our Modus Operandi seems to consist of impotent whining in forums that have no bearing on outcomes. Like Public Submissions.

HAVE YOUR SAY ITS YOUR RIGHT.

"We are preparing a road safety strategy called Safer Journeys to take us through to 2020, and we want to hear what you think about our ideas to improve road safety in New Zealand.

We have launched a discussion document that presents New Zealand's key road safety challenges and outlines 60 possible initiatives to address them. It is not the intention to introduce this many initiatives, but we want to have a public discussion which gathers together all possible interventions and considers which are the most important to adopt.

This is why we want to hear your ideas. We want to have a debate about which ones we should focus on. "

[glanvillejon]

Go to Page 31 and 32 of the discussion document. This is the section based on motorcycles. I have just completed the online submission, if you scroll down in this online submission you can just answer the questions that relate to motorcycles or answer other questions if you feel like it. Some of the initiatives being discussed are actually quite good, the only one I wouldn't agree with is increasing ACC levies for bikes over 600cc as discussed above but you can answer that with your own reasons for disagreeing. There is also room to make your own suggestions for improving safety for motorcyclists, a good chance to have your say! Im sure there are lots of things you could think of, like out lawing Cyclist group riding on open roads! lol - thats another can of worms that maybe I shouldn't open! grrrr lol

[Grahameeboy]

Go to Page 31 and 32 of the discussion document. This is the section based on motorcycles. I have just completed the online submission, if you scroll down in this online submission you can just answer the questions that relate to motorcycles or answer other questions if you feel like it. Some of the initiatives being discussed are actually quite good, the only one I wouldn't agree with is increasing ACC levies for bikes over 600cc as discussed above but you can answer that with your own reasons for disagreeing. There is also room to make your own suggestions for improving safety for motorcyclists, a good chance to have your say! Im sure there are lots of things you could think of, like out lawing Cyclist group riding on open roads! lol - thats another can of worms that maybe I shouldn't open! grrrr lol

Interesting with cyclists....one serious accident and it's all over the tabloids and on Breakfast TV..would be a different story if it was motorbikes

[cowpatz]

Out of interest are mopeds lumped in with the motorcycle casualty stats?

[glanvillejon]

Interesting with cyclists....one serious accident and it's all over the tabloids and on Breakfast TV..would be a different story if it was motorbikes

Absolutely, I was out Gebes pass on Sunday and just about took out a pack of cyclists and myself in the process of trying to avoid them. It was only a matter of time before it happened.

[Grahameeboy]

Absolutely, I was out Gebes pass on Sunday and just about took out a pack of cyclists and myself in the process of trying to avoid them. It was only a matter of time before it happened.

The problem is that they are often in packs of 20 going at race speed...down my road..residential...they go past my house taking up the whole road...

[dpex]

It's not about fair, and I can guarantee that you wouldn't like the increased ACC levies the bureacracy around your idea would bring.

Fair? Don't make me laugh. Motorcyclists are a minority and do not even comprise a credible, threatening voting bloc, because they can't even stop giving each other shit for the type of bike they ride, let alone mount a campaign to prevent a change in Government policy.

A ride on Parliament doesn't let "them" know anything, show 'them" anything, inform "them" of anything.

Protest is a thing of the past. Governments need sound economic reasons to not ban motorcycles, and they need to be informed by professional lobby groups who can demonstrate the sound political and economic benefits of doing so.

Public submissions are a waste of time and change nothing.

Political power is horse trading. If keeping motorcycles legal in NZ came down to banning adventure riding to gain Green support against the bill banning motorcycling would the Adventure riders give publicly voiced support to the idea?

I think not. We're not a political movement, we have no clear long term goals or motivation to meet them and our Modus Operandi seems to consist of impotent whining in forums that have no bearing on outcomes. Like Public Submissions.

I had a similar discussion with another couple of KBer's the other day. Their attitude being like yours..."What's the point? After all, the Gov ignored the anti-smacking referendum results, so why would they consider any biker submissions?"

Oh yes. That's the guaranteed method of losing. Just assume you're beaten before you start.

It takes so little effort to put in a submission; so why not do one?

For example, you might like to submit on the issues regarding moped riders. They require no bike licence, yet a 70Kg Moped rider, plus 50KG moped, hitting a solid object at 50Ks will see the moped rider either very ill or very dead.

What about ABS brakes? Great for straight-line stopping, but do they help when a frightened biker squeezes the lever during an 'Oh Fuck! I'm too hot into this corner'?

What about saying something about engine size? Surely, if the wee girl from Orewa can get around the track on a 125 at near the same speed...and frequently better than those on way bigger bikes, is the size of the bike the issue?

You see, on the one side the panel looking into submissions are being driven by ACC and the cops. The warts from ACC have no idea about bikes and bikers, other than what they cost ACC. The cops, like our good friend Scumdog spend their days picking up after some twit splats. And so the cops have a seriously jaundiced view (and quite reasonably in the circumstances).

But we, the riders, being from neither the ACC or the cops can contribute with well-crafted, well-reasoned submissions.

Remember, the main driver behind this 'Let's get the crash-rate to zero,' crap is being driven by ACC who are under huge pressure to reduce costs.


And so the focus is on reducing costs. Costs will not be reduced by invoking ever-more penalty rules. Understanding the issues and applying reasoned solutions might.

But if you don't tell them what you know or believe, they'll never know and therefore make their decisions in a one-sided vacuum.

[dpex]

You'll notice, if you have read the discussion document, that there is but a slight tilt at making bicycling safer. And those initiatives generally tilt toward other road-users giving bicyclists extra favour. Why?

Should those pretty boys and gals be accorded any more room on the road simply because they're no using petrol or diesel? Why?

Did you notice any suggestion that bicyclists should be required to wear proper protective gear?

Is there any suggestion that they should pay an ACC levy?

Is there any suggestion they should be constrained to riding one-by-one, as opposed to pairs or in wide groups?

Is there any suggestion bicyclists riding racing bikes should undergo some form of licencing?

The answer to all of the above is a resounding NO!'

The facts are, the modern racing bikes can get up to awesome speed...better than some Mopeds. But as we have all observed, bicyclists, on account of they all think they're doing God's work in the clean-green department, act often as a law unto themselves.

perhaps, by making a submission on bicyclists, dressed in their bullshit lycra, body-huggers, bereft of any training requirement, ACC levy, or licence, and generally treating the roads as their personal highways, might cause the commission to think a bit harder about penalising motor cyclists.

You'll never know till you try.

At the end of the day, as mentioned, this whole thing is being driven by a demand that ACC reduce its costs.

To get the annual road toll below a certain level becomes an exercise in reductio ad absurdum. Ergo, while mechanical things roll on the roads a certain number of their navigators will become road-kill, no matter what we do short of stopping all rolling things on all roads.

But, we have to play the game.

So submit something, even it it means nothing more than; YOU MADE AN EFFORT.