ACC Levies. BRONZ meeting

[jeffs]

The real truth is lobbying anyone to see our side is a waste of time. Unless you ride a bike, no one gives a hoot.
We have all been down this path so many times, with Public initiated referendums, its about time we all understood
how little the people who make the rules listen. There is only one way positive action.

If you want to take positive action, don't go riding on mass down the motorway or some other major road, blocking the road for the commuter traffic.
We need the public on our side not against us. Pissing of commuters will only increase the accident rate
by making car drivers think of us as the enemy, it will lead to people closing gaps to teach us a lessons, or
even worse. We will loose all sympathy to our plight, and our voice will never be heard.

You need highly visible, positive action that does not piss off a car driver with a 1 tone weapon, wanting to get even for delaying their morning run by an hour. It need to be one that has a cost to the law makers, and puts no one in danger. It needs to be one that reduces the chance of some dumb ass
rider crashing through stupid riding on the event, proving the ACC's point.

I suggest we start by very slow riding in close circles around the bus depots, in such a way as it makes it impossible for buses to
get out. Hit the commuter, but not the one driving the car. This will have several effects. It show the people that we don't want to be in
our cars adding to the congestion. Getting us off our bikes, wont make us move to public transport. If you hold up the cars, people
may move to public transport, which is exactly one of their plans. Given the latest bus problems, such a thing would get good news cover

Remember though, the best possible outcome if some one does listen, is not removing the ACC increases, just reducing them. There is
nothing anyone can do to stop ACC increasing the levies. Acc are broke ( a completely different debate ), but an extra $500, come on get real !!

[Hopeful Bastard]

OR you could just write up a sign and slap it on the back of your bike?

I have Ball Bearings. You have Windows. BACK OFF!


That way, Those that do get too close as you are slowly travelling down their route, Have been warned and find out the hard way

[Oxy]

I'm pretty upset by the proposed changes too, and emailed the following to John Key. What are your thoughts?

I have given serious consideration to the impending ACC levy increases and would like to submit my thoughts for your consideration.



· Not all people who have drivers licences own vehicles, yet they are still able to drive, therefore they escape paying levies, but are just as much a liability. In fact, in some cases they may be more of a liability because their driving experience may be less.

· Some people own more than one vehicle, but can only drive one at a time, so they are being penalised by the ACC levy.

· I feel that the huge increase in large motorcycle levies is unjust as some of the small bikes have more speed and less stability on the road than some of the larger bikes. Also, large bikes are more expensive and are therefore more likely to be ridden by experienced and more mature motorcyclists.



I do understand the situation ACC is in, but can I suggest that an annual levy placed on the drivers licence would be more fair. This should not depend on the vehicles that a person has, but rather I feel that it would be more appropriate for the younger people to pay a higher levy, and perhaps those who have had accidents could pay more. This would be consistent with insurance policies.



I ride a brand new Triumph Thunderbird (1600cc). I am a careful rider and my wife and I enjoy outings together on our bikes. She rides a 250cc Yamaha Star. The potential $500 increase in levies has left me having to deal with attitudes that I did not think I possessed. I am a mild mannered man with a sense of humour, but honestly, with the thought of my main recreation costing so much more, it is a very bitter pill to swallow.

[chasio]

We need the public on our side not against us. Pissing of commuters will only increase the accident rate by making car drivers think of us as the enemy, it will lead to people closing gaps to teach us a lessons, or even worse. We will loose all sympathy to our plight, and our voice will never be heard.

I totally agree with you on the principle that we need to get the public on side. We are a minority group and without public support we are stuffed. Antagonizing motorists won't help our cause at all.

This is not about us, it's about doing us first so they can do the big problems later against a background of "well, bikers lost XYZ, you're going to lose it too".

And therefore I believe that we could use the 'thin end of the wedge' argument to get some people onside. If our message is: cyclists, rugby players, netballers: you had better stick with us or you'll be next then we are giving people a 'what's in it for me' reason to support us.

In other words, if we can explain to people that the government is allowing ACC to abandon its principle of no fault and to target groups for more money simply because it is expedient to do so, they may just have a reason to support us.

Sadly I cannot make the initial meeting due to a community commitment, but the above is pretty much what I'd want to say. I will sign up for BRONZ (been meaning to since I did RRRS a while back) and will support action and initiatives designed to highlight the injustice and to try and gain support for us as a group.

[Ms Piggy]

Has WIMA made a statement? They seem to be alive and well in Wellington - I'm not a member...anyone here?

I've sent a message to the Wellington WIMA representative: Carol Spaulding asking if they will be organising a meeting. http://www.wima.org.nz/pages/Contact.php

Anyone else hear of anything in Wellington?

[ldcroberts]

I agree with the idea of changing the ACC fee's to drivers license holders rather than vehicles - after all, the vehicles aren't covered by it.

Every six months, you pay a fee depending on what vehicle classes you will drive in that period.

The only difficulty is how to police it - it's very easy to check whether a car is registered whenever it is parked in a public area.

How do you check whether a driver has paid a registration - only police can do that when they are pulled over or at a checkpoint. However if you assume most people will be honest then it should work out.

[TonyB]

At the top of that page it says 'This section includes accidents that do not involve a motor vehicle (for example cycle only accidents).'

Now I'm confused.... In fact the whole statistics section of ACC's site is bloody confusing (probably on purpose, like most bloody Govt. websites)

From your post you obviously have a better understanding of ACC's statistics, could you explain to us dweebs?

nah I don't understand it any more than you do. Thats why we need someone who does. Turning up with the wrong set of figures or misinterpreting them will only make bikers look like uneducated fools, and any points we put forward will be ignored.

[Kflasher]

Next BRONZ (Auckland ) meeting is 21st Oct.

[B]

1. We all know it's evil and unfair...

Please post as much notice you can if a protest ride (liken to the truck crawl) is to be organized.
I would love to bring Auckland or Wellington to a stand still… or both.

[purple]

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

[Azalrac]

I have seen on an Internet Poll that 80% of about 20000 votes supports us. That is a huge amount of public support which I find very heartening. It is also indicative of the fact that although there is a hardcore group who dont like us we have a surprisingly good rapport with the wider public. With this in mind action that impacts on other road users is not going to help us.

I would like to suggest that we target protest action at ACC Offices and National Party MP's offices around the country. This will allow us to hit those who we need to, avoid alienating the public and getting the support of ACC's wide range of enemies who are numerous.

[davereid]

OK. I'm a bit worried that BRONZ haven't seen fit to organise a special meeting, as I hoped this would be seen as serious enough to warrant one.

But it is a group of volunteers, all donating their time and resources freely, and they have been doing so for many years while I played on my bike without contributing.

And I know some of the Auckland BRONZ people, and I have a lot of respect for them, and their abilities.

So - I'd like to suggest that BRONZ are the focal point of what we do.

Rather than us all going off in angry, uncoordinated, different directions !

Can I suggest to the Mods that we have a "Read Only" BRONZ forum?.

The idea is that we can see what BRONZ is proposing by way of action, without us having to read 498 pages of pissed off bikers venting ?

P.S. If I can be of assistance to BRONZ in the Horowhenua area, just PM me or email me {username} at xtra etc.

[RiderInBlack]

The $500 dollar increase for the likes of us Doug is just the Levy part of the Rego right?? which brings the Levy up over $750 plus the Rego on top?

No the total Rego for over 600cc would be $781.12 (see attached ACC PDF page 32 on).
In a bit of shock here cause My Bike rego cost $267.21 on 15/04/09. Next year will be $430.54 ($287.02 for petrol car). If the proposal goes through in 2010/2011, it will be $781.12 for over 600cc bikes and $546.78 for 600cc&under ($390.56 for petrol car). Their other proposal is ta up the tax on petrol to 12.87cents/litre but the rego will still be $735.16 for over 600cc bikes. 600cc&under would be $500.82 and petrol cars $237.37. Yes bikes are getting screwed over badly.

[Azalrac]

Better that people vent here than at the meetings which have to be much more constrained. Its also good to hear what others think.

[Maha]

No the total Rego for over 600cc would be $781.12 (see attached ACC PDF page 32 on).
In a bit of shock here cause My Bike rego cost $267.21 on 15/04/09. Next year will be $430.54 ($287.02 for petrol car). If the proposal goes through in 2010/2011, it will be $781.12 for over 600cc bikes and $546.78 for 600cc&under ($390.56 for petrol car). Their other proposal is ta up the tax on petrol to 12.87cents/litre but the rego will still be $735.16 for over 600cc bikes. 600cc&under would be $500.82 and petrol cars $237.37. Yes bikes are getting screwed over badly.

Around the $1300 mark as we have two bikes here, mine at 1300cc and the Yamaha at 600cc, but if I get in early enough it wont effect me till late next year, mines due in Dec' anyway.

[Big Dave]

OK. I'm a bit worried that BRONZ haven't seen fit to organise a special meeting, as I hoped this would be seen as serious enough to warrant one.

? - there is a meeting on Wednesday coming and the agenda and 'rules' for the meeting have been posted.